Films (2002/10/31)

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/10/31 13:51

Sorry but there isn't as the
union has banned them unitl
further notice

There's so many grey areas here.

If you buy a DVD, you're clearly allowed to watch it. You're clearly =
allowed to invite a few friends around to watch it. You're clearly NOT =
allowed to show it to "the public". If you RENT a DVD, same story, =
right? So now what if you borrow a uni room to watch this DVD you =
bought/rented, that's still fine, surely? Instead of your lounge or =
wherever? So what if "a few friends" is more like 30, is that still OK? =
Not if you charge entry, obviously, but what if I said "hey, any of my =
IFIS mates can come round to my place and watch my [Matrix] DVD"? Is =
that OK? "Oh, my lounge isn't big enough for you all, let's borrow ALT1 =
room instead", isn't that fine? Isn't it? Isn't that an IFIS video =
evening then?

It's all very dubious.

--=20
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Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Dominic T. on 2002/10/31 14:44

"Oh, my lounge isn't big enough for you all, let's borrow ALT1 =
room instead", isn't that fine? Isn't it? Isn't that an IFIS video =
evening then?

It's all very dubious.

It is, and your point is quite correct.

A lot of laws come down in the end to "What a magistrate/judge/jury
considers reasonable". Legal wording is often deliberately left vague so
that they can later claim "yes - we meant that too".

So let's ignore the wriggling and say, hand on heart, "Nope, I don't think
IFIS video evenings constitute a public showing".
Now try it again without your fingers crossed.....

ISTR that in the past the union believed it had a blanket agreement for
these sort of things.
Perhaps now they don't.

Perhaps they'll acquire one.

Perhaps every student society in the country should write a letter a week to
Warner Brothers asking how much it would cost for the rights to show <insert
film title here> to an estimated audience of 30 people on a particular
Thursday.

Dominic

Films

Posted by Rey Blewitt on 2002/10/31 14:56

Found the same problem in Southampton, it arose in 1993 from what I was told
as it was before I was there, shortly after the union banned films both the
SF society and the Dr Who society folded. The odd thing was did manage to
find a departmental society (subject society) getting away with showing
films in Univerity and not student union buildings.

As for public showing, the law is garbled, tecnically when you rent or by a
film you can't even show it in your home beyond your family (the law does
not define family) but that is something that no-one enforces, or else the
law would have been tightend up years ago.

The problem is the use of a lecture theatre. Could you not go underground
though (book room, no posters etc), however if it is the student union and
not the university that is trying to stop you, and lets face it you will
never get to do a showing in Tommys, could you not ignore them as ALT etc is
not Student Union property and as such they are not liable.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Thomas [mailto:dominic@]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:44 PM
To: chat
Subject: Re: Films

"Oh, my lounge isn't big enough for you all, let's borrow ALT1 =
room instead", isn't that fine? Isn't it? Isn't that an IFIS video =
evening then?

It's all very dubious.

It is, and your point is quite correct.

A lot of laws come down in the end to "What a magistrate/judge/jury
considers reasonable". Legal wording is often deliberately left vague so
that they can later claim "yes - we meant that too".

So let's ignore the wriggling and say, hand on heart, "Nope, I don't think
IFIS video evenings constitute a public showing".
Now try it again without your fingers crossed.....

ISTR that in the past the union believed it had a blanket agreement for
these sort of things.
Perhaps now they don't.

Perhaps they'll acquire one.

Perhaps every student society in the country should write a letter a week to
Warner Brothers asking how much it would cost for the rights to show <insert
film title here> to an estimated audience of 30 people on a particular
Thursday.

Dominic

Films

Posted by Asan Tu on 2002/10/31 15:03

The problem is the use of a lecture theatre. Could you not go underground
though (book room, no posters etc), however if it is the student union and
not the university that is trying to stop you, and lets face it you will
never get to do a showing in Tommys, could you not ignore them as
ALT etc is
not Student Union property and as such they are not liable.

I think the liability kicks in because IFIS is an SU society, with the
obvious exit means of being leaving the SU. I seem to recall that there was
some sort of pseudo-society funded by the language department which was not
part of the SU which showed films in the Arts building.

cheers
Asan

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/10/31 15:35

I think the liability kicks in because IFIS is an SU society, with
the obvious exit means of being leaving the SU. I seem to recall that=20
there was some sort of pseudo-society funded by the
language department which was not part of the SU which showed
films in the Arts building.

Actually, I remember a previous occasion "a few years ago" (he said, =
pretending not to be old), when the Union was scr*wing us around yet =
again (they do this in different ways ALMOST every year). I can't =
remember whether it was the IFIS versus SciFiSoc naming fiasco, or one =
of the RHULSU vs ex-student upsets, or Constitutional cr*p, or ownership =
of the library, or some other petty legal thing or what, but we quite =
seiously considered divorcing IFIS from the union. Union regs allowed =
societies to have affilliations to other external organisations, and to =
pay subscriptions and things, so you could set up an RHULSU "Sci Fi Soc" =
that worked the way the union wanted, got loads of members at the =
freshers fayre, then donated a fair share of the theoric and membership =
fees to an affiliation with an "external" organisation like "The Egham =
and District Institute For Impure Science", which worked the way the =
MEMBERS wanted.

Nick - troublemaker. ;-)

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Dominic T. on 2002/10/31 15:49

fees to an affiliation with an "external" organisation like "The Egham =
and District Institute For Impure Science",

You wanna build an EDIFIS ?

hahahaha...

Of course, in this instance it wouldn't help at all. The external soc would
just get sued instead.

Unless you mean that you haven't attended all
of the films, in which case we may let you off...

Naa. Nick only attended IFIS film showings to pull birds.

Dominic

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/10/31 16:32

You wanna build an EDIFIS ?
hahahaha...

No, just saying that it has been suggested before, as a way of getting =
around various SU idiocies.

Of course, in this instance it wouldn't help at all. The external
soc would just get sued instead.

True, but if it had no assets, it could fold, and memebers, bored now =
they have nothing to do, might set up, say, an EDSFC to replace it, and =
then wait for THEM to get sued, etc etc.

Unless you mean that you haven't attended all
of the films, in which case we may let you off...

Actually I meant I haven't been an IFIS member for all of those 30 =
years.

Naa. Nick only attended IFIS film showings to pull birds.

Not STRICTLY true, but back then they were all-night drink and film =
parties, so if you'd already pulled, they were a good opportunity to get =
her drunk, and have her fall asleep on your shoulder during the more =
boring moments of "dark star"... But watch out! You could end up with a =
WIFE! :-)

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/10/31 16:41

Naa. Nick only attended IFIS film showings to pull birds.

Not STRICTLY true, but back then they were all-night drink and film
parties, so if you'd already pulled, they were a good opportunity to get
her drunk, and have her fall asleep on your shoulder during the more
boring moments of "dark star"... But watch out! You could end up with a
WIFE! :-)

And that's the way Nick met Estelle. Everyone say "ahhhh"

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Films

Posted by Asan Tu on 2002/10/31 16:42

True, but if it had no assets, it could fold, and memebers, bored now =
they have nothing to do, might set up, say, an EDSFC to replace it, and =
then wait for THEM to get sued, etc etc.

Yeah, you'd eventually end up with an ORIFIS :)

Not STRICTLY true, but back then they were all-night drink and film =
parties, so if you'd already pulled, they were a good opportunity to get =
her drunk, and have her fall asleep on your shoulder during the more =
boring moments of "dark star"... But watch out! You could end up with a =
WIFE! :-)

I think you've done far better than that ;)

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/10/31 16:43

Not STRICTLY true, but back then they were all-night drink and film =
parties, so if you'd already pulled, they were a good opportunity to get =
her drunk, and have her fall asleep on your shoulder during the more =
boring moments of "dark star"... But watch out! You could end up with a =
WIFE! :-)

I think you've done far better than that ;)

Yeah he got a daughter in the Bargain ;-)

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Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/10/31 15:21

shortly after the union banned films both the
SF society and the Dr Who society folded

For what it's worth, IFIS survived for at least 20 years without regular =
film showings. It's only "relatively" recently, less than 10 years, that =
the film showings have happenned every week. (No, I've not been around =
ALL of that time. ;-)

To be brutally honest, this MAY improve the society by improving the pub =
meets and excursions and things. On the other hand it MAY damage us, but =
I certainly doubt we'd fold.

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Rey Blewitt on 2002/10/31 15:21

oh, think I just got an idea for some of my coursework on copyright and data
protection modules next term.

Roy...

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/10/31 15:26

shortly after the union banned films both the
SF society and the Dr Who society folded

For what it's worth, IFIS survived for at least 20 years without regular
film showings. It's only "relatively" recently, less than 10 years,

Much less. Asan - wasn't the year you were in the chair the year we started
films every week ?

We did use to have all night video evenings in Lec A/B.....

that
the film showings have happenned every week.
(No, I've not been around ALL of that time. ;-)

Not 20 years but he has for the last 10. 12 and a bit in fact. Feeling old
Nick ? Patric on the other hand has been here 20 odd years and the society
predates him by a few.

To be brutally honest, this MAY improve the society by improving the pub
meets and excursions and things. On the other hand it MAY damage us, but
I certainly doubt we'd fold.

Just different again maybe ....

I really must try coming down one Thursday ..... am off in a week and a bit so
may wander down a fortnight today.

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Films

Posted by Asan Tu on 2002/10/31 15:57

Much less. Asan - wasn't the year you were in the chair the year
we started
films every week ?

Denied, they were certainly there the year before (and that's how I got
assimilated)

To be brutally honest, this MAY improve the society by improving the pub
meets and excursions and things. On the other hand it MAY damage us, but
I certainly doubt we'd fold.

Just different again maybe ....

Nah, IFIS won't fold. Cult Film soc might (are they still about?), and a few
others which rely solely on films.

"The first rule about Sci club, is that we do not talk about Sci club."

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/10/31 16:01

Much less. Asan - wasn't the year you were in the chair the year
we started films every week ?

Denied, they were certainly there the year before (and that's how I got
assimilated)

Well Adam Bob's owned up to the idea now so I guess that means it must be 95-96
then ? Longer than I thought....

(I was there 91-94, the Bob came in my last year and assuming Ad's didn't have
to repeat a year due to disciplinary offences or anything that would make his
last year 2 years after mine)

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Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/10/31 16:14

Well Adam Bob's owned up to the idea now so
I guess that means it must be 95-96
then ? Longer than I thought....

Sounds about right.

The other idea, which I never managed to implement
was to get college lecturers to deliver talks
on sci-fi related topics.

I had a FTL travel, biological warfare and
artificial intellegence lecture setup in principle
but getting Lecturers to commit to a specific
time and date proved tricky.

Given that you can't show films, it may be worth
reinvestigating the lecture approach.

Cheers,

Adam

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Films

Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/01 09:02

--- Adam Hattrell <adamh@> wrote:
> The other idea, which I never managed to
implement
> was to get college lecturers to deliver talks
> on sci-fi related topics.
>
> I had a FTL travel, biological warfare and
> artificial intellegence lecture setup in
principle
> but getting Lecturers to commit to a specific
> time and date proved tricky.
>

Is Dr Cohen still in Comp Sci? I remember his father
being one of the potential lecturers we had lined up?

Cheers,

Paul

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Films

Posted by Asan Tu on 2002/11/01 09:29

Is Dr Cohen still in Comp Sci? I remember his father
being one of the potential lecturers we had lined up?

Cheers,

Paul

Yes Dave Cohen is still wandering about the campus in his t-shirt and
sandals....

Films

Posted by George Proctor on 2002/11/01 12:57

He's on a sabbatical this year though. So he's not here even when he is, or
something.

-----Original Message-----
From:Asan Tu [SMTP:asan@]
Sent:01 November 2002 09:29
To:chat@
Subject:RE: Films

Is Dr Cohen still in Comp Sci? I remember his father
being one of the potential lecturers we had lined up?

Cheers,

Paul

Yes Dave Cohen is still wandering about the campus in his t-shirt and
sandals....

Films

Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/01 13:24

-- Proctor GD <G.D.Proctor@> wrote:

<Stuff about Dave Cohen snipped>

He's on a sabbatical this year though. So he's not
here even when he is, or
something.

Is he running around with the locals in a Peruvian
rain forest again?

Cheers,

Paul

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Films

Posted by Lizz Jennings on 2002/11/03 13:12

Well Adam Bob's owned up to the idea now so I guess that means it must be

95-96

then ? Longer than I thought....

I don't remember there being films in the first year I joined IFIS (1996-7)
except for occasionally. The pub meet was certainly the main focus of it,
and it always left me rather confused because people kept talking about
sci-fi... :o)

Love,
Lizz

Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/10/31 15:30

It's only "relatively" recently, less than
10 years, that the film showings have happenned
every week. (No, I've not been around
ALL of that time. ;-)

I hate to break it too you but you were!

Weekly films were one of the changes I made during
my third year.

Unless you mean that you haven't attended all
of the films, in which case we may let you off...

Cheers,

Adam

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Films

Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/01 08:57

--- Adam Hattrell <adamh@> wrote:
> > It's only "relatively" recently,
less than
> > 10 years, that the film showings have
happenned
> > every week. (No, I've not been around
> > ALL of that time. ;-)
>
> I hate to break it too you but you were!
>
> Weekly films were one of the changes I made
during
> my third year.
>

If I remember correctly we started regular IFIS video
evenings during the second year of Bob (1994). This
was mainly due to the fact that the X-Files was
becoming very popular and we managed to get a lot of
extra IFIS member (60 additional members?) by showing
episodes that had not yet aired in the UK. We got
around the union rules by making it free to IFIS
members and making non-members join on the door for
two quid. I believe Kevin(Bob) also sold cans of Coke
he had got cheap from Macros until the SU found out.

There were video evenings before that but not on a
regular basis (unless everyone piling into Founders
common room to watch Red Dwarf counts?).

Cheers,

Paul

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Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/11/01 11:25

Weekly films were one of the changes I
made during my third year.

If I remember correctly we started regular
IFIS video evenings during the second year
of Bob (1994).

Well yes, but not in the current format.

We started with longer evenings 3-4 times a term.
We'd show 3-4 things in a row till fairly
late at night. We never ran them on Thursday
night at that was considered an exclusive
Pub night.

So for example we did the manga night - in
which we showed Akira, Dominion: Tank Police
and Urotsukidoji.

This was kind of done prior to us too, though
not necessarily as regularly.

The weekly schedule films came in later. It's
possible we may have put it in during the third
term of the second year, but I'm fairly certain
it was actually part of a number of changes we
pushed through in the third year.

This was mainly due to the fact that the
X-Files was becoming very popular and we
managed to get a lot of extra IFIS member
(60 additional members?) by showing
episodes that had not yet aired in the UK.

No. We got an additional 60 members in total
over the course of the year. X-files was the
single biggest gain, which was mildly suprising
as we threw it in to fill out the schedule.

We got around the union rules by making it
free to IFIS members and making non-members
join on the door for two quid.

We didn't get round any rules as far as that
went. The Union's license just didn't allow
us to charge. There was a little by-play
when we kept gazumping their big movies,
but thems the breaks...

You'll note they used the same policy for
their own film nights. (No charge on the
door.

I believe Kevin(Bob) also sold cans of Coke
he had got cheap from Macros until the SU found out.

Well the problem wasn't us selling the coke. It
was that we weren't buying it from them. Theirs
was more expensive and it stopped being cost
effective.

There were video evenings before that but not on a
regular basis (unless everyone piling into Founders
common room to watch Red Dwarf counts?).

During the first year I think there was maybe
one a term. I certainly recall a Dr Who evening,
and a Star Trek night in which they showed an early
DS9 pilot.

Cheers,

Adam

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Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/01 11:50

This was kind of done prior to us too, though
not necessarily as regularly.

Once a term if that....

During the first year I think there was maybe
one a term. I certainly recall a Dr Who evening,
and a Star Trek night in which they showed an early
DS9 pilot.

I wonder how that came about ????

The DW night was a 30th anniversary celebration - we had Unearthly Child (1st episode), Destiny of the Daleks (which at the time you couldn't buy on video) and Earthshock. I recall it was rather better attended than I was expecting.

The DS9 pilot (and B5 pilot) I'd got during the summer that year (might even have had the DS9 before the break....) At the time TNG wasn't showing on 2. Can't remember what we put on with DS9 - must check the mags or ask Sean.....

Before then there was a great history of many IFIS TV viewings - I've got old mags mentioning watching Buck Rogers in Dominic's place in Williamson. And then we had the "How many people and how much food can we get into Phil's place ?" *VERY* regularly when I was in Williamson and was one of the rare people to have a video on Campus.

Films

Posted by Simon Richardson on 2002/11/01 13:28

philip_ayres@ wrote:
[...]

Before then there was a great history of many IFIS TV viewings - I've got
old mags mentioning watching Buck Rogers in Dominic's place in Williamson.

And then we had the "How many people and how much food can we get into
Phil's place ?" *VERY* regularly when I was in Williamson and was one of

the

rare people to have a video on Campus.

IFIS showed "Mad Max" 1 and 2 in the summer of 1982. I wasn't a
Holloway student at the time - but Patric was.

So great or otherwise, there's certainly history - I rather think
that the new students weren't alive in 1982.

Films

Posted by Sean Scaplehorn on 2002/11/01 13:55

=20
The DS9 pilot (and B5 pilot) I'd got during the summer that=20
year (might even have had the DS9 before the break....) At=20
the time TNG wasn't showing on 2. Can't remember what we=20
put on with DS9 - must check the mags or ask Sean.....
=20

I'm pretty certain it was DS9 and Spaceballs, but I'm sure there was
another film sandwiched in between them to. Maybe Lawnmower Man.
Sounds really naff now but it seemed like a good idea at the time..
Can't remember for sure, but I've got the poster at home still
somewhere. =20

Before then there was a great history of many IFIS TV=20
viewings - I've got old mags mentioning watching Buck Rogers=20
in Dominic's place in Williamson. And then we had the "How=20
many people and how much food can we get into Phil's place ?"=20
*VERY* regularly when I was in Williamson and was one of the=20
rare people to have a video on Campus.
=20

And when we first started and I was the only one with a TV in
Williamson. Wednesdays was ST:TNG night because Athlone common room had
Neighbours or Emmerdale or something like that on... I believe there
was also Red Dwarf 5 after the pub on Thursdays, since it was on whilst
we were at the Ascot (God rest it's soul!)

Sean

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/01 14:14

Sean:

The DS9 pilot (and B5 pilot) I'd got during the summer that
year (might even have had the DS9 before the break....) At
the time TNG wasn't showing on 2. Can't remember what we
put on with DS9 - must check the mags or ask Sean.....

I'm pretty certain it was DS9 and Spaceballs, but I'm sure >there was another film sandwiched in between them to. Maybe
Lawnmower Man.
Sounds really naff now but it seemed like a good idea at the
time.. Can't remember for sure, but I've got the poster at
home still somewhere.

Dig out, bring it up the next time youcome over and I'll scan it in.

Have we got Sean's mag covers in the Mag archive ?

Before then there was a great history of many IFIS TV
viewings - I've got old mags mentioning watching Buck Rogers
in Dominic's place in Williamson. And then we had the "How
many people and how much food can we get into Phil's place ?"
*VERY* regularly when I was in Williamson and was one of the
rare people to have a video on Campus.

And when we first started and I was the only one with a TV in
Williamson. Wednesdays was ST:TNG night because Athlone common >room had Neighbours or Emmerdale or something like that on...
I believe there was also Red Dwarf 5 after the pub on Thursdays,
since it was on whilst we were at the Ascot (God rest it's soul!)

And here's the story of how Phil met Sean: While venturing into the Athlone common room Phil was lynched tring to change channels to TNG only to find out the majority of people in there wanted to watch Home & Away !!!! Spoiled my image of students massing in the common room for the latest SF show.... So back I came to Williamson and watched Shades of Grey with Sean - remember the Riker getting strangled clip? It should be addedthat following that we went to see Hattie Heyridge doing some improv in Holloways...

BTW the RD 1 DVDs turned up in the post this morning, I'll letyou all know what I think....

Simon (Hi Simon, drop me a mail if I don't remember to mail you):

IFIS showed "Mad Max" 1 and 2 in the summer of 1982. I wasn't a
Holloway student at the time - but Patric was.

Was he still a studentthen ?

So great or otherwise, there's certainly history -

Personally I'm enjoying this little tour down the societies history.

Simon, can you remember where we were drinking then ?

I rather think
that the new students weren't alive in 1982.

Frightening....

Fireworks: Don't Kingswood do one anymore?

Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/11/01 14:13

During the first year I think there was maybe
one a term. I certainly recall a Dr Who evening,
and a Star Trek night in which they showed an early
DS9 pilot.

I wonder how that came about ????

Not sure really. Some psycho forced everyone
to go along and watch. :-)

The DW night was a 30th anniversary celebration
- we had Unearthly Child (1st episode), Destiny
of the Daleks (which at the time you couldn't
buy on video) and Earthshock. I recall it was
rather better attended than I was expecting.

Yeah, I remember that one. Certain nameless
people got annoyed at the Bob's references to
Waynes World during Earthshock.

"Excellent, Cyber Leader"

Cheers,

Adam

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Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/01 13:00

-- Adam Hattrell <adamh@> wrote:
> > This was mainly due to the fact that the
> > X-Files was becoming very popular and we
> > managed to get a lot of extra IFIS member
> > (60 additional members?) by showing
> > episodes that had not yet aired in the UK.
>
> No. We got an additional 60 members in total
> over the course of the year. X-files was the
> single biggest gain, which was mildly suprising
> as we threw it in to fill out the schedule.
>

Didn't make myself very clear there. I meant the 60
extra members were a result of the regular video
evenings, not just X-files.

> During the first year I think there was maybe
> one a term. I certainly recall a Dr Who evening,

> and a Star Trek night in which they showed an
early
> DS9 pilot.
>

I remember the DS9 video evening, I also remember Phil
lending us a copy of the Babylon 5 pilot he had
acquired from the states, which we thought was a bit
crap at the time.

Anyone still play Netrek ?

Cheers,

Reminiscing Bob

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Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/10/31 15:03

Dominic beat me to it, my PC crash while trying to freeze frame the SW E1 DVD
copyright message. It seems to say (paraphrasing) This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school (and thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

The BBC merely prohibits public performance.

I think the best we could manage would be "Guilty as charged M'lud", and that's
before we took into account inadvertantly charging them for it (Can't come in if
not a member, membership costs etc)

(Both have additional blah about copying and renting ....)

Interestingly the Fox copyright notice has a msg prohibiting export outside the
EU, anyone got an R1 to check what it says about export outside of the US ?

Speaking of export outside the US....... Some of you may be aware of the large
number of Transformer comics that have been popping up on import in places like
Forbidden Planet. They've sold rather well even when you ignore the obvious
multiple cover strategy. It has emerged that the company that make them,
Dreamwave, only had a product licence for N America. So when Panini (the
licence holders in the UK) spotted a load of Dreamwave stuff on the Diamond
Stand at the Franfurt Book Fair (Diamond are the big comic distributers in the
UK and much of the world) Hasbro kicked up a fuss and as a result you will no
longer be able to buy the biggest selling comic in the UK over the last 6 months
in the UK anymore !

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
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Films

Posted by Kathryn D. on 2002/11/01 16:50

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night" type
thing?
Kathryn.

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school (and
thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Films

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/01 16:54

Possibly. But we can't have more than five people in a room except on Friday
and Saturday nights. Any gathering of five people or more is classed as a
party. And we'd need permission from the hall warden. Apparently.
How big is your room?
What we could do, is form a separate, unofficial, "society" to just watch
films. Everyone who wants to go just splits the cost of renting a video/dvd
and we go to someone's room and watch it. If everyone directly contributes,
does that count as a public performance, regardless of where we watch it?

-----Original Message-----
From:Dowd KM [SMTP:K.M.Dowd@]
Sent:01 November 2002 16:50
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night" type
thing?
Kathryn.

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school (and
thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Films

Posted by Adam Cummins on 2002/11/01 17:00

Possibly. But we can't have more than five people in a room except on Friday

and Saturday nights. Any gathering of five people or more is classed as a
party. And we'd need permission from the hall warden. Apparently.
How big is your room?

Really? When I lived in Founders I used to have a lot more than five people in my room on some nights...

What we could do, is form a separate, unofficial, society to just watch
films. Everyone who wants to go just splits the cost of renting a video/dvd
and we go to someone's room and watch it. If everyone directly contributes,
does that count as a public performance, regardless of where we watch it?

It still looks to me to be of dubious legality.

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"Haha! I have a newspaper! But I don't like it!!!"

Personalised email by http://another.com

Films

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/01 17:03

well, you're allowed 8 in a double room. Oh, the excitement!
Well, whether it's legal or not, I don't know, but if it's not SU affiliated
they couldn't shut it down, and we'd have complete say over what we want to
do, and who we'd let join (NO HOMERS!) and it would take longer for the
lawyers to find us. Assuming that a bunch of friends watching films together
is illegal...

-----Original Message-----
From:Hello_I_am@ [SMTP:Hello_I_am@]
Sent:01 November 2002 17:00
To:chat@
Subject:RE: Films

------=_Part_18299_3173378.1036170004428
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Possibly. But we can't have more than five people in a room except on
Frida=
y

and Saturday nights. Any gathering of five people or more is classed as a
party. And we'd need permission from the hall warden. Apparently.
How big is your room?

Really? When I lived in Founders I used to have a lot more than five
peopl=
e in my room on some nights...

What we could do, is form a separate, unofficial, =93society=93 to just

wa=
tch

films. Everyone who wants to go just splits the cost of renting a

video/dv=
d

and we go to someone's room and watch it. If everyone directly

contributes=
,

does that count as a public performance, regardless of where we watch it?

It still looks to me to be of dubious legality.

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"Haha! I have a newspaper! But I don't like it!!!"

--
Personalised email by http://another.com
------=_Part_18299_3173378.1036170004428--

Films

Posted by Kathryn D. on 2002/11/01 17:03

Not that big!
But I meant that as we live in the building where we show the film, it
should count as "home
use".
Kathryn.

-----Original Message-----
From:Thickins LW [SMTP:L.W.Thickins@]
Sent:01 November 2002 16:55
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

Possibly. But we can't have more than five people in a room except on
Friday
and Saturday nights. Any gathering of five people or more is classed as a
party. And we'd need permission from the hall warden. Apparently.
How big is your room?
What we could do, is form a separate, unofficial, "society" to just watch
films. Everyone who wants to go just splits the cost of renting a
video/dvd
and we go to someone's room and watch it. If everyone directly
contributes,
does that count as a public performance, regardless of where we watch it?

-----Original Message-----
From:Dowd KM [SMTP:K.M.Dowd@]
Sent:01 November 2002 16:50
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night"

type

thing?
Kathryn.

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school

(and

thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Films

Posted by Chris Turner on 2002/11/01 17:11

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Dowd KM wrote:

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school (and
thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night" type
thing?

Wouldn't work. You couldn't get MLT or advertise it because the SU would
clamp down on it straight away. And you'd be missing out on the primary
reason for showing films - attracting new members.

_If_ they say we can't show films, then we'll just have to think of new
things to attract members. Maybe a deal with the local cinema? We do a
whole lot more than most other societies put together.

Films

Posted by Kathryn D. on 2002/11/01 17:15

We could try invading the common room occaisionally, it's not like a lot of
people use it because most have a tv in their room. If not then we'll have
to organise a lot more things to do - just going down the pub isn't enough.
Kathryn.

-----Original Message-----
From:Chris Turner [SMTP:christ@]
Sent:01 November 2002 17:11
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Dowd KM wrote:

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school

(and

thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club, public
performance and exhibition prohibited.

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night"

type

thing?

Wouldn't work. You couldn't get MLT or advertise it because the SU would
clamp down on it straight away. And you'd be missing out on the primary
reason for showing films - attracting new members.

_If_ they say we can't show films, then we'll just have to think of new
things to attract members. Maybe a deal with the local cinema? We do a
whole lot more than most other societies put together.

Films

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/01 17:17

we could march into the common room one night, and order out everyone who
isn't a member of ifis, or make them pay 3 quid to join. if giles and gordon
are around, they could bring some weaponry to remove the dissidents...

-----Original Message-----
From:Dowd KM [SMTP:K.M.Dowd@]
Sent:01 November 2002 17:16
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

We could try invading the common room occaisionally, it's not like a lot
of
people use it because most have a tv in their room. If not then we'll have
to organise a lot more things to do - just going down the pub isn't
enough.
Kathryn.

-----Original Message-----
From:Chris Turner [SMTP:christ@]
Sent:01 November 2002 17:11
To:'chat@'
Subject:RE: Films

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Dowd KM wrote:

This DVD is for home use
only, all other use prohibited. Home use does not include a school

(and

thus
any other educational establishment I'd have thought) or club,

public

performance and exhibition prohibited.

Hmm,
Some of us do live in Founders though don't we?
Couldn't we blag it as an extended "all round mine for a film night"

type

thing?

Wouldn't work. You couldn't get MLT or advertise it because the SU

would

clamp down on it straight away. And you'd be missing out on the primary
reason for showing films - attracting new members.

_If_ they say we can't show films, then we'll just have to think of new
things to attract members. Maybe a deal with the local cinema? We do a
whole lot more than most other societies put together.

Films

Posted by Chris Turner on 2002/11/01 17:25

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Thickins LW wrote:

we could march into the common room one night, and order out everyone who
isn't a member of ifis, or make them pay 3 quid to join. if giles and gordon
are around, they could bring some weaponry to remove the dissidents...

So...we march into a room, armed with potentially lethal weapons, threaten
people with violence.

Now, call me crazy, but I think the police might object to this. At the
very least, they'd kick everyone off their courses.

Films

Posted by Abby Sparrow on 2002/11/01 19:59

Yes pub meets are great but unfortunately its the films that attract most
members (trust me-freshers fayre showed this in abundance) so in order to
have any future at all we really have to show the films. Otherwise no ifis
for the foreseeable future-alas.

Abby
X

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Turner
To: 'chat@'
Sent: 01/11/2002 17:25
Subject: RE: Films

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Thickins LW wrote:

we could march into the common room one night, and order out everyone

who

isn't a member of ifis, or make them pay 3 quid to join. if giles and

gordon

are around, they could bring some weaponry to remove the dissidents...

So...we march into a room, armed with potentially lethal weapons,
threaten
people with violence.

Now, call me crazy, but I think the police might object to this. At the
very least, they'd kick everyone off their courses.

Films

Posted by Chris Turner on 2002/11/02 02:04

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Sparrow AC wrote:

Yes pub meets are great but unfortunately its the films that attract most
members (trust me-freshers fayre showed this in abundance) so in order to
have any future at all we really have to show the films. Otherwise no ifis
for the foreseeable future-alas.

Whilst it attracts people to join the society, very few of those new members
are active beyond watching films.

It's why the filmsoc always fails. In essence it's 2 societies - a film
watching society and a film showing society. The committee are the latter,
the majority of members are the former. When it comes to the AGM, none of
the members want to stand for positions, because they don't want to show
films - they just want to watch them.

IFIS gets around this by doing other activities - predominately the weekly
social get-together down the pub (which in theory could be considered a
general meeting).

So, it's just a case of taking their money and using it spend on the members
who are more active - xmas dinners, books, trips to places etc...

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/11/02 09:41

Chris Turner wrote:
[lots]

So, it's just a case of taking their money and using it spend on the members
who are more active - xmas dinners, books, trips to places etc...

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's too easy to (wrongly) assume
that the most successful society is the one with the most members.
Nowhere in our constitution. or the SU draft constitution, does it say
that the aims of the society are to get as many members as possible. You
can check for yourself at:
www.ifis.org.uk/society/constitution/
but basically:

2. Aims and Objectives
2.1 To promote discussion of, and organise events relating to, the
Society's interests of Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror and other
related genres.
2.2 To provide a library for members containing books relating to the
Society's interests.

As far as I can see, there are ONLY 2 reasons to have lots of members:
a: to bring in more money to pay for 2.1 and 2.2
b: the SU closes down societies who get less than N members. I can't
remember what N is, but we usually pass it on day 1 of fresher's fayre,
and I'm pretty sure there were more than N members at the last film I
went to so I'm pretty sure we're already "safe" for this year, with or
without any more films.

Do NOT make the mistake of assuming IFIS has failed if it has "only" 40
members, as long as those members feel their "sci-fi, fantasy, horror,
and other related genres" needs have been fulfilled, one way or another.
:-)

Go on, tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm an interfering old git who should
keep his nose out of society business ;-)

"Nosey" Nick Waterman, Senior Sysadmin. #include <stddisclaimer>
sig@ http://noseynick.net/
Shortcut: the longest distance between two points.

Films

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/02 14:27

No-one would have to carry out the threats. Probably.

So...we march into a room, armed with potentially lethal weapons, threaten
people with violence.

Now, call me crazy, but I think the police might object to this. At the
very least, they'd kick everyone off their courses.

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/11/01 18:07

just going down the pub isn't enough.

No, but ALMOST "just going down the pub" kept the society alive for half =
it's life. People joined because they liked sci-fi, they went to the pub =
to discuss sci-fi, films were very infrequent and didn't attract many =
more members. Membership numbers weren't huge, but it was a brilliant, =
friendly society, and was always one of the most "active" societies =
because it actually MET every week. Some members (and I'm not =
mentionning names) even thought that weekly films, on PUB NIGHT, =
would/did ruin the society.

Honestly, the films are great, but it's not the end of the world if we =
can't show them... We just need to get a bit more creative with trips =
and events and stuff, and get a lot more people down the pub, for =
longer, and talking more.

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/01 18:33

Honestly, the films are great, but it's not the end of the world if we
can't show them... We just need to get a bit more creative with trips
and events and stuff, and get a lot more people down the pub, for
longer, and talking more.

Speaking of which would anyone like to go for a trip round the sci fi shops in
Central London ?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
NOTE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS - PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOK
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Films

Posted by Charlotte R on 2002/11/02 01:38

Honestly, the films are great, but it's not the end of the world if we
can't show them... We just need to get a bit more creative with trips
and events and stuff, and get a lot more people down the pub, for
longer, and talking more.

Speaking of which would anyone like to go for a trip round the sci fi

shops in

Central London ?

Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! SHOPPING!!!!
*grin*
What a marvellous idea.....

Charlotte

Films

Posted by Adam Cummins on 2002/11/02 13:13

Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! SHOPPING!!!!
*grin*
What a marvellous idea.....

yes!!! I love the shopping trips! Plus we have to get the obligatory annual photo in the Jubilee Extension, isn't that right Phil? :)

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"She's got a chicken to ride!"

Personalised email by http://another.com

Shopping

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/02 14:12

Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! SHOPPING!!!!
*grin*
What a marvellous idea.....

yes!!! I love the shopping trips!

Plus we have to get the obligatory
annual photo in the Jubilee Extension,
isn't that right Phil? :)

Absolutely. www.ifis.org.uk/social/gallery/phil01.jpg

Anyone else keen on coming ? And when shall we go ?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
NOTE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS - PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOK
www.netcomuk.co.uk.shtml/~payres
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Shopping

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/02 14:29

Give me a little time to work on improving my overdraft and I'd love to go.
First weekend in December maybe? I have no particular reason for that date.

Incidentally, has anyone read the Loeb/Lee Batman?

Anyone else keen on coming ? And when shall we go ?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
NOTE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS - PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOK
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
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Shopping

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/02 14:35

Give me a little time to work on improving my overdraft and I'd love to go.
First weekend in December maybe? I have no particular reason for that date.

A fine idea.... Saturday 7th ?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
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www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
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Shopping

Posted by Adam Cummins on 2002/11/02 14:52

Give me a little time to work on improving my overdraft and I'd love to go.

First weekend in December maybe? I have no particular reason for that date.

A fine idea.... Saturday 7th ?

Well, that depends on what the committe says really, doesn't it?

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"Elephants, Yeah!"

Personalised email by http://another.com

Shopping

Posted by Charlotte R on 2002/11/03 14:12

Give me a little time to work on improving my overdraft and I'd love to

go.

First weekend in December maybe? I have no particular reason for that

date.

A fine idea.... Saturday 7th ?

Well, that depends on what the committe says really, doesn't it?

Saturday 7th sounds good to me... :)
*bounce*

Charlotte
(Who is not the committee, but is just randomly sending e-mails anyway)

Films

Posted by Kathryn D. on 2002/11/04 23:18

It really depends on who you want to attract to the soc doesn't it?
Cos I know people who have joined Ifis for the past couple of years and
happiliy come along to the films (which are mostly mainstream hollywood) and
don't consider themselves scifi buffs, who don't usually come to the pub,
and who wouldn't be interested in most of the trips you could organise.
In fact I astonished the people in my Science Fiction (an Eng Lit Course)
seminar at the start of term, who didn't even know IFIS existed, when I
mentioned they might want to join. Most of them thought it was far too weird
and nerdy and fannish til I mentioned the films that were shown last year.
None of them joined even though they all claimed to be far more into film
than book scifi.
P.S - someone mentioned the idea of getting lecturers to talk on scifi
related subjects. If that gets picked up on then you could try Adam Roberts.
He runs the Scifi course, seems a thoroughly lovely guy, and I'm sure
wouldn't turn down a chance to talk about/plug his own science fiction
novels.
Kathryn.

-----Original Message-----
From:Nick Waterman [SMTP:nwaterman@]
Sent:01 November 2002 18:08
To:chat@
Subject:Re: Films

just going down the pub isn't enough.

No, but ALMOST "just going down the pub" kept the society alive for half =
it's life. People joined because they liked sci-fi, they went to the pub =
to discuss sci-fi, films were very infrequent and didn't attract many =
more members. Membership numbers weren't huge, but it was a brilliant, =
friendly society, and was always one of the most "active" societies =
because it actually MET every week. Some members (and I'm not =
mentionning names) even thought that weekly films, on PUB NIGHT, =
would/did ruin the society.

Honestly, the films are great, but it's not the end of the world if we =
can't show them... We just need to get a bit more creative with trips =
and events and stuff, and get a lot more people down the pub, for =
longer, and talking more.

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Chris Turner on 2002/11/05 00:45

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Dowd KM wrote:

It really depends on who you want to attract to the soc doesn't it?

People who want to take an active part in the society. People who want the
society to continue on for years to come.

Cos I know people who have joined IFIS for the past couple of years and
happiliy come along to the films (which are mostly mainstream hollywood) and
don't consider themselves scifi buffs, who don't usually come to the pub,
and who wouldn't be interested in most of the trips you could organise.

And I'd refer you to the email I wrote about why the film society repeatedly
fails to last for more than a couple of years.

Do these people actually care that it's IFIS showing the films - or if some
other group were showing them, would they just go and see it with them
instead? Because apart from donating their 3 quid, they're not putting
anything else into the society.

In fact I astonished the people in my Science Fiction (an Eng Lit Course)
seminar at the start of term, who didn't even know IFIS existed, when I
mentioned they might want to join. Most of them thought it was far too weird
and nerdy and fannish til I mentioned the films that were shown last year.

What gave them the idea it was "wierd, nerdy and fannish" if they didn't
know the society existed? Do they think the Rugby club is wierd and nerdy
because they also go to pubs and sit around drinking and chatting about
common interests (which I doubt is purely just rugby).

It sounds like the problem is with them if they're going to make rash
judgements about things without even trying them first.

None of them joined even though they all claimed to be far more into film
than book scifi.

Does that matter? IFIS isn't about books any more than it's about films, or
TV or any other media.

At the end of the day, all any society really wants is members who want the
society to thrive. Members who just take what they can get aren't going to
help improve the society.

Chris

Films

Posted by Lizz Jennings on 2002/11/05 00:59

Does that matter? IFIS isn't about books any more than it's about films,

or

TV or any other media.

And in fact for strange people like me, it doesn't even need to be about
sci-fi :o) OK, so maybe joining a society which had interests I knew
nothing about was a strange idea, but letting them corrupt me? Me loopy!
:oD

Love,
Lizz
Ex-non-sci-fi-fan ;o)

Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/11/05 11:04

And I'd refer you to the email I wrote about
why the film society repeatedly fails to last
for more than a couple of years.

I'll refer you to the comments I made when we
first had this discussion all those years ago.

Us nerds will always join the society. A percentage
of the large number of people who "just contribute
their money" (and I still don't follow why that's
so bad) will be won over to nerdish ways.

The films fullfill the remit of the society; as
does the library; as do the trips to London
etc.

It's only through being inclusive that the society
as a whole will grow and thrive.

What gave them the idea it was "wierd, nerdy
and fannish" if they didn't know the society
existed?

Because anyone willing to dedicate time and
effort to supporting a sci-fi society is going
to be "wierd, nerdy and fannish" by definition.

I certainly count myself in that list, and the
vast majority of my friends.

Cheers,

Adam
Nerd and Proud

_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com

Powered by Outblaze

Films

Posted by Kathryn D. on 2002/11/05 13:43

What gave them the idea it was "wierd, nerdy and fannish" if they
didn't
know the society existed? Do they think the Rugby club is wierd and
nerdy
because they also go to pubs and sit around drinking and chatting
about
common interests (which I doubt is purely just rugby).

Probably the stereotype of what SCiFi Fantasy fans are like - my point =
is,
that they all are scifi/ fantasy fantasy fans (sort of - was appalled =
to
discover that some of them hadn't seen Star Wars), but found the idea =
of
IFIS (maybe because I had to explain the name to them?) a bit strange. =
Also
the simple fact that they didn't know it existed is pretty shocking.=20

The films are probably the most accessible and high profile thing about =
the
soc to some of these people - and I have managed to take people who =
would
run a mile at the idea of Scifi fans to IFIS film showings, which then =
makes
it more likely they'll want to come to the pub and get involved. They =
even
enjoyed themselves.

I rarely managed to get to the pub myself in the past couple of years =
due to
the simple fact of being an English student and having essays due in on =
a
friday morning (and now because I work an early shift on a friday =
morning).
I've also managed in the past not to make it to shopping trips because =
I
worked on a saturday, or to Buffy/Angel weekends because I had to go =
home on
that particular weekend. Some thursdays I fail to make it to the film =
for
similar essay based reasons, and I've never got books from the library
because I can barely keep up with my course reading!

So I am not a very actively involved member, even though I would like =
to be.

Does this mean I'm not welcome to IFIS?=20
Do you not want my =A33 a year?

As for the Rugby club - having seen the way they behave around the =
Stumble
and Holloways on a wednesday night - yes people do think that they're =
weird!
Maybe not 'nerdy' but definitely weird.
It sounds like the problem is with them if they're going to make
rash
judgements about things without even trying them first.

Quite simply, these nice, mainstream film evenings are the best way to =
get
these intelligent and interesting people, who happen to have been =
misled
about what scifi fans are like, to even take an interest - they might =
even
get more interested in the area as a result. Of course, if you give out =
the
impression that only 'nerds' are welcome, they'll never join.=20
Kathryn.
P.S. Not going home for a few weeks, so can't check yet, but on past
experience I am willing to bet that large Asda stores will have 'Night
Watch' for under a tenner. =20

Films

Posted by Chris Turner on 2002/11/05 16:57

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Dowd KM wrote:

What gave them the idea it was "wierd, nerdy and fannish" if they didn't
know the society existed? Do they think the Rugby club is wierd and
nerdy because they also go to pubs and sit around drinking and chatting
about common interests (which I doubt is purely just rugby).

Probably the stereotype of what SCiFi Fantasy fans are like - my point is,
that they all are scifi/ fantasy fantasy fans (sort of - was appalled to
discover that some of them hadn't seen Star Wars), but found the idea of
IFIS (maybe because I had to explain the name to them?) a bit strange. Also
the simple fact that they didn't know it existed is pretty shocking.

Well to be honest, I didn't knew it existed in my first year either. The
only reason I joined was because GameSoc and IFIS (in days of old) had a
joint membership deal and their welcome meetings were back to back before
the pub. So when I went to the GameSoc one, I had to wait around whilst the
IFIS one happened.

Finding societies you might be interested in is a nightmare at Freshers
Fayre - the sports clubs and larger societies generally seem to end up with
about 100 people standing in front of their desks which blocks the view of
all the (potentially interesting) other stalls. Unless you're either very
patient or you know a society exists, you're unlikely to spot it.

Do they still have the lists of societies plus brief blurb in the students
handbook? Thats the only way I ever managed to find GameSoc.

[snip]

Quite simply, these nice, mainstream film evenings are the best way to get
these intelligent and interesting people, who happen to have been misled
about what scifi fans are like, to even take an interest - they might even
get more interested in the area as a result. Of course, if you give out the
impression that only 'nerds' are welcome, they'll never join.

*sigh* I think you've missed the point I've been trying to make.

Over the past week or so, people have been running about like headless
chickens screaming "Oh no!! No films!! IFIS will cease to exist if we can't
watch films!!"

The point I've been trying to make, is that IFIS isn't just a film
(watching) society - if it was then it would have followed all the various
incarnations of filmsoc into de-ratification long ago.

Every year we easily make over 20 members on the first day of Freshers Fayre
by just being really loud, colourful and interesting. The society can, if
it wants to be, be high profile and attract the kinds of people we want to
attract.

If I remember correctly, one of the things that attracted our current
chairbeing to the society, was Adam dressed up in a Dr. Who costume dancing
about the place. In the old days (sorry), we didn't have this kind of stuff
- just people sitting behind the desk looking um...nerdy (and still made our
quota easily).

The thing that will kill the society, is if the social activities don't get
new members. People need to feel a part of the society, otherwise why would
they bother going to the AGM and stand for positions? People are unlikely
to vote for a complete stranger over someone they've spent the past year
socialising with down the pub.

One more thing that I did wonder was...

I rarely managed to get to the pub myself in the past couple of years due to
the simple fact of being an English student and having essays due in on a
friday morning (and now because I work an early shift on a friday morning).

So does this mean that if IFIS wasn't showing a film on a Thursday, you
could maybe visit the pub during the early part of the evening instead? Or
are you saying you don't make it to the film either?

Cos one thing this lack of film thing might show is whether more people
would go to the pub, if it wasn't for the fact the film clashes. I have
seen that some people after the films have said that it's not worth going to
the pub at such a late time, for example.

Last week was a bit of an anomally cos of it being Halloween - or at least I
hope that was why it was so quiet. If it wasn't cos of that - then we
really are screwed *8).

Films

Posted by Philip Ayres on 2002/11/05 18:18

Out of interest how many students take the mail lists ?
If possible broken down by Under Grad years and Post Grad ?

I'm intrigued to know ..... signing up (and staying on) our mail list would be
(to my mind) a reasonable indication they're interested in us.

(are the first years here yet ?)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
philip_ayres@
NOTE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS - PLEASE UPDATE YOUR ADDRESS BOOK
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Films

Posted by Luke T. on 2002/11/05 20:33

Finding societies you might be interested in is a nightmare at Freshers
Fayre - the sports clubs and larger societies generally seem to end up
with
about 100 people standing in front of their desks which blocks the view of
all the (potentially interesting) other stalls. Unless you're either very
patient or you know a society exists, you're unlikely to spot it.

Do they still have the lists of societies plus brief blurb in the students
handbook? Thats the only way I ever managed to find GameSoc.

[Thickins LW] IFIS was just listed in Fresher's Fayre blurb as
"Impure Science". I didn't even know they were at Fresher's fayre until i
saw Adam at the stall.
I also only joined in the first year because IFIS was next to
gamesoc and Chris T was manning both stalls at once and told me about IFIS.

Films

Posted by Adam Cummins on 2002/11/06 11:25

If I remember correctly, one of the things that attracted our current
chairbeing to the society, was Adam dressed up in a Dr. Who costume dancing
about the place.

Yes, but that's because she's a bit mad and likes Sylvester McCoy. Most people ran screaming, it was the films that got the members and I personally don't think we would have made our quota of 20 without that particular carrot to lure them.

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"A Masterful Vintage"

Personalised email by http://another.com

Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/11/05 21:54

Probably the stereotype of what SCiFi Fantasy fans are like

[snip]

but found the idea of
IFIS (maybe because I had to explain the name to them?) a bit strange.

That's PRECISELY why IFIS prefers to be called IFIS, and resisted
horribly during the year or two that the union forced us to call
ourselves "The Sci Fi Society". People don't even seem to realise what
Sci-Fi IS, and the negative stereotype is so strong, that membership
plummetted during those years.

Incidentally, how did you explain the name to them? I can't even
remember the author, let alone which book it comes from. I guess having
a Sci-Fi COURSE has its advantages :-)

I remember working Fresher's Fayre, seeing people walk past our stand
almost shading their eyes (perhaps PARTLY because they kept putting us
next to LesBiGay, but also because they thought Sci Fi was geeky). I
pretty much had to scream "The Matrix! X-Files!" in their faces - "Oh,
there's an X-Files society? Cool! where? where?" - "IFIS - It's Sci-Fi,
Fantasy, Horror, Cult..." - but they'd already interrupted with "Sci-Fi?
Oh, no no no!" and were running away. Even if those people were
convinced to join up, maybe at an X-Files video night, you can guarantee
they wouldn't be contributing in any other way, let alone be next year's
committee material.

On another note - I've seen 3 film societies fail. Film societies do not
work. I'm not going to theorise as to why, but they are all doomed from
day 1. IFIS survives for OTHER reasons. Films do not help IFIS as much
as you may imagine. They're great, they're much appreciated by many
members incuding myself, but please don't pretend they're vital to the
survival of the society - 30-ish years of IFIS survival, and probably 10
filmsoc failures in the same time, prove you wrong. I'm not living in
the past, I'm not just reminiscing, I'm not being nostalgic, I'm trying
desperately not to be seen as one of the (probably mythical) interfering
old ex-members, I'm just laughing at the phrase "We must learn from
history, or we are doomed to repeat it", as I've already seen IFIS
history repeat time after time, just within the last 10 years. Nobody
learns, including myself when I was chair! It's hilarious, honestly. :-)

"Nosey" Nick Waterman, Senior Sysadmin. #include <stddisclaimer>
sig@ http://noseynick.net/
How can they tell?

Films

Posted by Abby Sparrow on 2002/11/05 22:58

Ok ok can we stop this now? I understand where you're all coming from -all
of these points are valid and I have taken them on board. But I have found
that a lot of this year's members are very much interested in the film
showing aspect of the society. Compared with last year the number of people
at the films is much larger and there have been keen debates on choices for
upcoming films etc.

I certainly know that with regards to the committee that the Pub off would
be heartbroken without having to show off his poster making skills each
week.

Getting people to pub is really really really (i cannot stress this enough)
HARD! I'm trying (really I am) but again not that easy-people won't come if
they don't want to-no matter how much you stress that you're normal
(comparitively speaking).

In my humble opinion (not that it seems to count for much here) I think the
films are highly important (not life threatening to the society) but still a
key ingrediant in attracting new members.

Bitching is never a good thing. If you have a comment or helpful suggestion
to make to me about the running of the society please pose it to me and not
in proverbial terms masquerading as a hint.

Thankyou. Please understand I'm just trying to keep everyone happy
-including myself-this is not meant to be a bitch more of a helping hand for
myself to stop me from going absolutely insane.

Love to all
Abby
X

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Turner
To: Sparrow AC
Sent: 05/11/2002 10:56
Subject: RE: Films

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Sparrow AC wrote:

Asking people to stay on for years is a bit much-they might want to

leave

the egham area and start afresh-like me!

You're generally here for 3 years - which is the general lifespan of the
film society. Probably because some idealistic freshers set it up and
then
have to remain as the committee until they leave. *8)

We don't expect people to stay beyond the 3 years, but when you've met
some
really nice people and made lots of really good friends - it's a whole
lot
easier to stick around than go and face the scarey big wide world alone.
Or
at least thats my reason for being here.

I don't think you can expect that of people-some might want to stay on

thats

true. This debate has gone on so long that the original strain of the

topic

has long disappeared and is basically how other people would run the

society

if they were in charge.

Not entirely. Or at least my line of thinking has been trying to point
out
that IFIS doesn't (or shouldn't) rely on showing films as there seems to
be
a lot of people panicing that IFIS will die if we can't show films.

Much as everyone's input is nice and helpful some of you haven't been

on

the committee and dealing with the newly shuffled union for some

time-i'm

not sure if its how you all remember it.

*sigh* We're not saying these things because we think you should do
everything we say cos we've been around since the dawn of time. We're
just
pointing out stuff we've experienced before. Learning from past
mistakes
etc. Maybe some of what we've said isn't entirely true any more, but
that
doesn't mean that it's useless information.

The Union doesn't really change that much - it will always be filled
with
crap people doing it so they have something nice on their CV who don't
take
any notice of anything that their predecesors have done or said.

If people want to join just for the films thats fine-we shouldn't

persecute

them for wanting to do so just because they don't have an innate

capacity to

obsess- unlike me who obsesses over everything and other people I

know.

Wasn't suggesting persecuting anyone, just pointing out that as members
they're not really going to want to go for committee positions and if
they're the only members we have, then there won't be a committee next
year.

Sorry for butting in with such harshisms but I can't help but feel

this is

turning into a 'Rah its not how it used to be' debate-No its not going

to be

the same but we can all still have fun with the new committee ;-) and

still

do things like in the old days.

Thats OK, I have been trying to avoid that sort of thing. It's just
that
there seem to be a few people (not necessarily the committee) who think
that
films are the only thing the society does and that concentrating all our
efforts on attracting people who are just interested in films is a good
thing and forgetting that at the end of the year we'll be needing
members
who are interested in more than just watching films to stand up and take
over the mantle of running the society.

Anyhow...how goes the good fight? Has the SU got it's act together and
found/paid it's "we can watch films" license? *8)

Films

Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/06 10:59

-- Sparrow AC <A.C.Sparrow@> wrote:
>
> Getting people to pub is really really really (i
> cannot stress this enough)
> HARD! I'm trying (really I am) but again not that
> easy-people won't come if
> they don't want to-no matter how much you stress
> that you're normal
> (comparitively speaking).
>

This has always been the case. Many Students were not
keen to go to pubs off campus (even when the Ascot was
only 100 yards away). We have resorted to a variety
of methods including bribery, blackmail and kidnapping
(anyone remember Piers?).

Keep trying, you'll get them there eventually.

Cheers,

Paul

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Films

Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/11/06 20:47

Paul Ilsley wrote:

This has always been the case. Many Students were not
keen to go to pubs off campus (even when the Ascot was
only 100 yards away). We have resorted to a variety
of methods including bribery, blackmail and kidnapping
(anyone remember Piers?).

Yup. Still in contact with him. He's no longer a millionaire, as his
share options have dropped a lot, at least he bought himself a nice
house with no mortgage first.

Yup... We dragged him kicking and screaming to the pub, and look what it
did to him :-)

"Nosey" Nick Waterman, Senior Sysadmin. #include <stddisclaimer>
sig@ http://noseynick.net/
References: None. I've left a path of destruction behind me.

Films

Posted by Adam Cummins on 2002/11/06 11:37

I remember working Fresher's Fayre, seeing people walk past our stand
almost shading their eyes (perhaps PARTLY because they kept putting us
next to LesBiGay, but also because they thought Sci Fi was geeky). I
pretty much had to scream The Matrix! X-Files! in their faces - Oh,
there's an X-Files society? Cool! where? where? - IFIS - It's Sci-Fi,
Fantasy, Horror, Cult... - but they'd already interrupted with Sci-Fi?
Oh, no no no! and were running away. Even if those people were
convinced to join up, maybe at an X-Files video night, you can guarantee
they wouldn't be contributing in any other way, let alone be next year's
committee material.

That may be the case but it still got members and kept the membership quota going. Very few people will join IFIS on the strength of it being a sci fi society alone (I was one of the few in my year, in fact there were about five of us and I can name them all) films bring them in and if films bring them in we get them to the pub and then turn them over to the dark side or whatever. Without films what have we got? "Come to our library of old books and hang out at the pub with a bunch of strange people who are ex-students in their 20s and 30s (I am NOT aiming that as an attack at anyone and am including myself in this) who will talk about weird stuff at you". If people come along to films however and get enticed to the pub (which actually happens quite a lot and I can name some of these people from my tenure on committee) then they don't end up getting scared off by a big freaky sci fi society.

On another note - I've seen 3 film societies fail. Film societies do not
work. I'm not going to theorise as to why, but they are all doomed from
day 1. IFIS survives for OTHER reasons. Films do not help IFIS as much
as you may imagine. They're great, they're much appreciated by many
members incuding myself, but please don't pretend they're vital to the
survival of the society - 30-ish years of IFIS survival, and probably 10
filmsoc failures in the same time, prove you wrong. I'm not living in
the past, I'm not just reminiscing, I'm not being nostalgic, I'm trying
desperately not to be seen as one of the (probably mythical) interfering
old ex-members, I'm just laughing at the phrase We must learn from
history, or we are doomed to repeat it, as I've already seen IFIS
history repeat time after time, just within the last 10 years. Nobody
learns, including myself when I was chair! It's hilarious, honestly. :-)

I understand that IFIS is not and never has been a film society and I know that it survives for other reasons, BUT these days the films help a hell of a lot more than they used to. If it hadn't been for the films I wouldn't have come along to IFIS much at all. I'd have stayed in my room in Founders, never progressed to the pub meets, disgracing myself at the Christmas dinner, getting elected as Secretary and then as Chair.

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"Wow! Sylvester McCoy!"

Personalised email by http://another.com

Films

Posted by Rey Blewitt on 2002/11/06 13:47

I understand that IFIS is not and never has been a film society and I
know that it survives for other reasons, BUT these days the films help a
hell of a lot more than they used to. If it hadn't been for the films I
wouldn't have come along to IFIS much at all. I'd have stayed in my >room

in Founders, never progressed to the pub meets,

Adam
The Minister of Chance
"Wow! Sylvester McCoy!"

If it was not for IFIS I would never had met two of the closest friends I
have ever had

Roy...

Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/10/31 15:17

ISTR that in the past the union believed it
had a blanket agreement for these sort of things.
Perhaps now they don't.

Back when I was a treasurer they most certainly
did. I remember because a few years previous the
Union was thoroughly and utterly sued for showing
movies without a license.

They ended up having to pay a large fine (read
very large) and having to get a license. The
net effect was that pretty much all the societies
had pretty much no theoric allocation that year.

The year after the government changed the way
theorics were funded and we got slightly less!

So either the union let their license lapse
or whoever they were buying their license from
has changed the rules...

(For what it's worth the law has most certainly
not changed. It's all covered by the
COPYRIGHT, DESIGNS AND PATENTS ACT of 1988
Section 4.2 (ill) covers public showings.
Goto http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/ if you're bored.)

Cheers,

Adam

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Films

Posted by Rey Blewitt on 2002/10/31 15:41

Adam, how much of this can you remember (in terms of what things are
called), the first thing to do is to check out what the situation is with
the blanket lisence, in case non-renewal was an oversight/ cost reduction
policy or needing a new lisence from somewhere else. find out from the
permanent staff or something what is happening if the Sabs don't have a clue
what you are talking about (though with luck they will or will get the
permanent staff to tell them. Then decide the next move.

Roy...

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Hattrell [mailto:adamh@]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:18 PM
To: chat@
Subject: Re: Films

ISTR that in the past the union believed it
had a blanket agreement for these sort of things.
Perhaps now they don't.

Back when I was a treasurer they most certainly
did. I remember because a few years previous the
Union was thoroughly and utterly sued for showing
movies without a license.

They ended up having to pay a large fine (read
very large) and having to get a license. The
net effect was that pretty much all the societies
had pretty much no theoric allocation that year.

The year after the government changed the way
theorics were funded and we got slightly less!

So either the union let their license lapse
or whoever they were buying their license from
has changed the rules...

(For what it's worth the law has most certainly
not changed. It's all covered by the
COPYRIGHT, DESIGNS AND PATENTS ACT of 1988
Section 4.2 (ill) covers public showings.
Goto http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/ if you're bored.)

Cheers,

Adam

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Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com

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Films

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 2002/10/31 16:22

Adam, how much of this can you remember (in
terms of what things are called),

Not enough to be of use I suspect. You've
had the majority of what I remember.

Prior to my time, IFIS used to charge for
video evenings. Once the legal thing ran
through that had to change. The union's license
was quite specific in that we weren't allowed
to charge.

They even called a clubs and socs meeting to
explain this, so I can't believe they made it
up.

Unfortuanately, it must have been around 7-8
years ago now. It's unlikely anyone I knew
at the time will still be around.

It might be worth checking with the imperial
college SU, in my day they were always far
more clued up than our local officals.

Sorry,

Adam

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Posted by Nick Waterman on 2002/10/31 17:10

It might be worth checking with the imperial=20
college SU, in my day they were always far
more clued up than our local officals.

Yup, I've just been told the same by an ex-imperial student - their =
lawyers are far better than ours, and we're both members of the =
university of london, aren't we?

--=20
Nick Waterman. Senior Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator,
Research In Motion http://www.rim.net/ #include <stddisclaimer>
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld!

Films

Posted by Paul Ilsley on 2002/11/01 09:01

--- "roy.blewitt"
<roy.blewitt@> wrote:
> >
> > ISTR that in the past the union believed it
> > had a blanket agreement for these sort of
things.
> > Perhaps now they don't.
>
> Back when I was a treasurer they most certainly
> did. I remember because a few years previous the
> Union was thoroughly and utterly sued for showing

> movies without a license.

I thought they were only sued for playing records at
SU discos without paying any royalty fees? I don't
think videos/films ever came into it.

Cheers,

Paul

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