power of the force (was RANT ON! (fwd) (1998/01/19)

power of the force (was RANT ON! (fwd)

Posted by Ben Dunkley on 1998/01/19 18:47

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:42:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Pringlespanion <benjamin@>
To: ifis@
Subject: Re: power of the force (was Re: RANT ON!

On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Hanley F wrote:

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From: Gordan Bobic[SMTP:gordan@]
Sent: 19 January 1998 13:06
To: 'ifis-chat@'
Subject: Re: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

Note that Yoda did indeed CONCENTRATE to lift the X-Wing out of the
swamp. I doubt he could do it if he was fighting Darth Vader at the
same
time.

Remember, Yoda said 'Size matters not...'

Anyway, he didn't concentrate much. And he was very old and near death.
It seemed that Luke had to concentrate because he believed that
concentration was necessary, but Yoda just sighed and did it.

Ben

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| IVE SEEN THE FU *---------------------------*
| S T |
| R U |
| UCER STI DNA ER |
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O _____________
/ \ /3
o / X BAD \ / 3
< Fish X 3
. \__ TRIP / \ 3
/____________/ \3

power of the force (was RANT ON! (fwd)

Posted by Simon Richardson on 1998/01/20 14:24

In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.980119184718.29933B-100000@>, Pringlespanion <benjamin@> wrote:

From: Pringlespanion <benjamin@>

From: Gordan Bobic[SMTP:gordan@]

Note that Yoda did indeed CONCENTRATE to lift the X-Wing out of the
swamp. I doubt he could do it if he was fighting Darth Vader at the
same
time.

The student complains that he is trying so hard. The Master says "too hard
you try. Do not try, do." And does. That is a blatant steal from so many
martial arts flicks (and for that matter from some of the way real martial
arts is taught). The truth is that much of the Star Wars "Jedi" system owes
more to Japanese legends than to any sensible consideration of physics.
Much the same arguments can be advanced for a lot of the guns technology and
social structures of the spaghetti Westerns. The "code of the West" is
bushido. And the Dark Side of the Force is explored quite adequately in
pulp-Japanese-legend books like "Dai-San".

It also explains the properties of the Light Sabre - it is a weapon designed
to be a science-fantasy equivalent of Father's katana. The powers of the
Force can also be found in any book on martial arts - normally called "ki".
To look for scientific explanations is to miss the point of the film.

The only difference is that I have seen no evidence that ki in this world
has any direct effect on physics, unlike the Force. It affects the mind and
muscles of an attacker, but that is mind-affecting, not physical magic. You
could explain it all (away) with, say, hypnosis or body language. Maybe I
need to meet Uri Geller, but I suspect not.

I suspect we live in a world where physical magic doesn't work. Maybe that
is why the films are set "in a Galaxy far, far away."

Simon

---
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"I have been asked to point out, as if you couldn't guess, that my rantings
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power of the force (was RANT ON! (fwd)

Posted by Daniel Celano on 1998/01/20 15:22

Some more Star Wars rantings...
Obi Wan and Vader are based on two generals who figth each other, Vader
wins by cheating (sneak attacks etc.) and in the end repends. The original
duel was with short spears, Vader win, as Obi rides away in defeat.

The plans of the death star is a hoard of gold, the death star is
an old destroyed fortess (as in the name of the film "Hidden Fortess").
The two drones are stupid bandits. The princess is a princess...

The idea of the force was introduced by Lucas and then expanded by Alec
Guiness - who was trying to make it more fairy-tale like. Han and
Luke character was introduced for Star Wars. There were no square chin
hero's in the original story - which will not do for the Americans.

Here's some anorak rantings...
In answer to Simon's point about the Sheffield - there is a difference
is scale. The exocet and Sheffield are not that difference scale - maybe
50 to 1 (money-wise and technical known-how involved),
this dwarfs in to comparison with the A-wing and executioner
class star cruiser. If a single figther can take out a cruiser, no one
would build then, they would all build carriers and fighter/bombers (a
cruiser relays on it big guns to do damage not it figthers). It's not
that the cruiser was destroyed - it was so out of character for the
story line.

Daniel

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power of the force (was RANT ON! (fwd)

Posted by Adam Hattrell on 1998/01/20 15:40

Some more Star Wars rantings...

Damn I keep saying to myself that I won't post anymore today...

[Hidden Fortress parallels snipped]

The idea of the force was introduced by Lucas and then expanded by Alec
Guiness - who was trying to make it more fairy-tale like. Han and
Luke character was introduced for Star Wars. There were no square chin
hero's in the original story - which will not do for the Americans.

An interesting take, but. The entire point of starwars is Luke as the
quintessential hero. He follows the entire mythic route. The Vader /
OB1 thing is just a sub thread, to link into the earlier films (which
had not yet been made).

Here's some anorak rantings...
In answer to Simon's point about the Sheffield - there is a difference
is scale. The exocet and Sheffield are not that difference scale - maybe
50 to 1 (money-wise and technical known-how involved),
this dwarfs in to comparison with the A-wing and executioner
class star cruiser. If a single figther can take out a cruiser, no one
would build then, they would all build carriers and fighter/bombers (a
cruiser relays on it big guns to do damage not it figthers). It's not
that the cruiser was destroyed - it was so out of character for the
story line.

I'm not sure I understand you here. It was very much part of the
story. The point was they found a weakness in the otherwise
overwhelming force that was the Deathstar. Which they managed to
hit by sacrificing most of their fighters. They would have failed
if Luke hadn't have completed his hero's journey and accepted his
powers.

Incidently, in RotJ, the DeathStar was beefed up. The empire moved
the necessary power systems inside and added a backup. If the DS
hadn't been deliberately left unfinished, the X-wings wouldn't
have been able to get at the vulnerable bits. Rather interestingly
Lando and the Millenium Falcon weren't supposed to make it out, which
is why Han does all the foreshadowing "I feel like I'll never see her
again". However, the american audiences at the test screenings, hated
the idea of the falcon being destroyed, so the ending was re-written.

Right thats definitely the last. I must get this job finished.

Later,

Adam Hattrell, Support, Cimio Ltd. adam@