Top 10 TV Sci Fi on Channel 4

Hi again,

Did anyone watch Tom Baker presenting the top ten TV
Sci Fi on Sunday night. Apparently it was from a vote
but no details to who did the voting ? Star Trek came
first with Dr Who second (no big surprise). However
Babylon 5 and X-Files were both conspicuous by there
absence. And how can the The Tomorrow People and
Space:1999 get into the top ten! Sapphire & Steel was
fun, but Thunderbirds ? What about TerraHawks,
Fireball XL5 and Starfleet then ?

Nick,

How about setting up a vote for top 10 SF on the IFIS
website ?

Cheers,

Paul

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Call me suspicious, but I think these things are voted for by the producers
of the show only. Possibly based on how cheap they can get the clips to
show...

Andy
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07968 357 854

I caught the last hour or so. twas very amusing, tho he was
obviously mad/drunk (delete as appropriate)
I could not BELIEVE that. They went to all the problem of hiring
Tom Baker to present it, they got three of the other surviving Doctors to
appear, everyone they interviewed said something along the lines of "Doctor
Who is the best sci fi format ever" and then they have $#!++Y, F***ING Star
Trek as number one. I was annoyed.
I'd have thought Doctor Who clips would have been cheaper to show
than clips of an overrated, over budgeted and overdue for scrapping entire
load of old American C**P

Adam
The Chairbeing of Doom!!!

My point being that Dr Who clips are probably cheap compared to X-Files and
B5. Given that Trek is on virtually every channel on Sky at the moment, I
don't think it is very expensive anymore.

Andy
_____________________
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07968 357 854

Dunno who voted, but I think there were criteria.

I didn't notice anything filmed later than the 80s. I think it was a top 10
classic SF show, which is fine, but I think they could have made that
clearer.

Whatever happened to Pamela Hensley anyway? After "Matt Houston", that
is....

Dominic

Isn't ST:TOS being shown by both Channel 4 and E4 at the moment ? Far be it for me to
insinuate that the 2 are linked.....

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Philip Ayres
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Oh I don't know. I was flicking the channels yesterday and I'm sure it was
on about four of them...

Andy
_____________________
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So, honestly Adam, what do you think of Star Trek?


Jon

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I've been considering the question of Star Trek quite a bit recently. Bit of a ramble,
and not much pt but ....

I'll start by saying I watched TOS (The Original Series, probably the only acronym I'll
need to explain) as a kid, the films at School, read the books and watched TNG at College
and University and went off DS9 & ST:V after graduation.

Anyhow. I can make a difference between the 6 Trek TV series and the (2 ?) Trek Movie
series. I wonder what the public thinks when they get asked about Star Trek ? Do they
still think TOS, Mr Spock pointed ears and dodgy sfx (actually they aren't that dodgy,
what I saw on Saturday was very respectable) ? I can't see many people immediately
thinking TNG, but I can see people thinking "series of films with old actors a little past
their sell by dates". Which maybe leads us onto how some sci fans perceive Trek as a
multi million $ production line in recent years baring little resemblance to it's initial
ideals and values with some slightly strange fans - and ST fans do exist in the public's
mind as a bunch of nutters dressing up in silly costumes for conventions....

I won't doubt ST's image as the best known sci fi show in the public's mind - though
question as above quite what it is they perceive. I do think that both TOS and ST:TNG
are very important in terms of sci fi TV in the US. TOS did some extraordinary stuff for
the time, TNG proved that serious TV sci fi could be done and look good. TOS's
opposition at the time was mainly lighter stuff.... TNG had done, the networks avoiding
sci fi since the late 70s and the financial disaster that was V. TNG paved the way for
everything you see now in the US - none of that would have happened without TNG saying
that sci fi could be done and that people would watch it. TNG started off in a field of
1 (can anyone remember when War of the Worlds was cancelled in the US ?) but by the time
it was done it certainly had some company.....

Certainly your Buffy's and X-Files wouldn't be here today without TNG which is perhaps
worth thinking about....

And if you fancy reading some ST books try The Pandora Principle (for fans of the movies)
or any TNG book by Peter David.....

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TOS(S) an accurate description of my opinion...

Adam

oh *grits teeth* its absolutely WONDERFUL.

Excuse me, I need a shower, i feel dirty now.

Adam

Space 1999 - especially certain episodes of the first series - isn't too bad. And even
the Uk's #1 authority of Star Fleet (me !) will acknowledge that it's a little bit of a
minority interest. Even so....

Thunderbirds is the most fondly remembered of the Gerry Anderson Shows....
How Morse never made the top 10 cop shows I'll never know.


Anyone got a listing of the official top ten for the sci fi ? I was out and needed to
tape Randall & Hop (Deceased) on the other side. Even better if anyone taped it.....

I can get down as far as 5 TV shows.....

1 Doctor Who
2 Babylon 5
3 ST:TNG
4 Blake's 7
5 Star Fleet

I know I'm going to have a "kick myself I've forgotten something" incident later.

Adam: Star Trek probably won by lumping together votes from all 4 series



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Philip Ayres
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Being on holiday, I managed to miss this entirely. What channel was it on? I
know the C4 "100 greatest [whatever]" shows have online voting forms on
www.channel4.com somewhere.

---

Nick Waterman, Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator, Research In Motion

I
The clue was in the title: "Top 10 TV Sci Fi on Channel 4" :-)

Anyway, its a good idea putting voting forms on the website, but only if you
tell people they are there.

Andy
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07968 357 854

Basically it was a programme in the Channel Four "Top Ten" series,
which has included things such as the Top Ten Punk songs and stuff. I don't
think its voted for, just compiled by a bunch of folks down at Channel Four.

The Top Ten of Science Fiction was basically one of these shows, two
hours of a count down of ten sci fi shows which somehow had been decided
upon as the top ten presented by the Great Lord Tom of Baker. Bl**dy Star
Trek was number one.

Adam
The Chairbeing of Doom!!!

I'm sure that at some point in the programme they DID say it had been voted
for.
It was rather an aside comment - they didn't make a big deal of it, and only
mentioned it once.

For all I know they stood on the pavement outside their office, and asked
the first three people who walked past.
They might also have offered multiple choice answers - there might not have
been much choice.

On the other hand - I would never have voted for "Sapphire and Steel",
because I'd simply forgotten its existance, but I do agree with its listing.

Dominic

<plenty snipped>
What exactly is "Sapphire and Steel"? Can someone of
greater wisdom (or years) enlighten me? I'd never come
across it before now, and what I saw intrigued me.


Jon

=====
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And I'll be up again
One good day of the week
And I'll be higher than the government"

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----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Lee <hellojed_2000@>
To: <chat@>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Top 10 TV Sci Fi on Channel 4
Speak nicely to the chairbeing, who could then speak nicely to
this society member who owns all 6 S+S tapes, it might be possible
to show one of the adventures on a film night.

---

Chris Lyth (Clyth@)

Someday we'll look back on all this and plow into a parked car.

Chris Lyth's your man here: Chris care to enlighten the masses ?

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Philip Ayres
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----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Ayres <payres@>
To: <chat@>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Top 10 TV Sci Fi on Channel 4
Tomorrow maybe.
:-P

---

Chris Lyth (Clyth@)

Never eat more than you can lift. -- Miss Piggy

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Lyth <Chris@>
To: <chat@>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Top 10 TV Sci Fi on Channel 4
It's now officially tomorrow, and I've finished that book, so...

Sapphire and Steel.

What they said about it on the top 10 SF was absolutely correct.
It was weird, and deliberately did not explain most of what was
happening.
David McCallum and Joanna Lumley were both on top form, and
had even more sexual tension between them than Blake and Avon.
(Ducks to avoid whatever Phil just threw at me).
There are 6 adventures, none of which were given names.
The explanantion of who S+S are is given in the opening monologue.

'All irregularities will be handled by the forces controlling each
dimension.
Trans-uranic, heavy elements may not be used where there is life.
Medium atomic weights are available. Gold, Lead, Mercury, Jet, Radium,
Sapphire, Silver and Steel. Sapphire and Steel have been assigned.'

Make of that what you will.

Steel is hard, grey and has many physical superpowers. eg he can perform
feats of great strength, take his own temperature down to -273.1degreesC
(though at a cost), and most usefully in todays world, operate computers
by waving vaguely at them.
Sapphire is prone to being physically attacked, is a warm and apparently
caring individual. Her party tricks involve taking back the last 10 minutes
of time so something can be redone. She can also tell an objects entire
history by touching it.

They are sent by whoever to deal with attacks on this world by 'Time'.
Think of it as if 'Time' in this case is a bit like Pratchett's Dungeon
Dimensions.
The stories have a unique feel to them that has only since been approached
by
the Hush episode of Buffy, and even that only takes the first couple of
steps.
The only way to really appreciate S+S is to watch it.

If a committee type of person requests it, I can supply one of the 4 episode
stories for a Thursday night.

Anyway I have to be in work in 8 + 1/4hrs and a full hour of that time will
be spent travelling, so I am going to bed now.

Goodnight Ma
Goodnight John boy...

---

Chris Lyth (Clyth@)

In its more horrific method of retribution, the mob will sometimes
dress victims as mimes, place them in glass boxes, and let them
perish slowly in full view of the public. - G Larson

I don't know about the greater wisdom. Many of us that saw
it when it was originally on don't know what it was exactly.

It was two blond(e) people doing strange surreal things for
reasons that were not adequately explained. It was all
very low-budget and Channel 4 - in the days before there
was a Channel 4.

Someone may have them on video or DVD...





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Thats because Star Trek (apart from being far superior to doctor who in
my opinion) is the most popolular and biggest sci-fi tv show ever.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This tagline has been cruelly tested on cute furry animals.

"Let me try on your dress, it turns me on when we're a mess...
We won't live forever now, so let's make the most of it somehow"

nothing@

Star
Ok, if it was based on popularity, why was Sapphire and Steel in there and
not the X-Files?

Andy
_____________________
andy@
www.knightsofni.freeserve.co.uk
07968 357 854

I'm not sure... but my argument was about star trek being number one and
doctor who being number two. Probably because they didn't want it over run
by programs from the 90's (B5 should have been there too! ). If it was a
bigger count down then I don't think the oines that came up would have
been where they where.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This tagline has been cruelly tested on cute furry animals.

"Let me try on your dress, it turns me on when we're a mess...
We won't live forever now, so let's make the most of it somehow"

nothing@

in
and
SciFi FANS have a diffrent view on SciFi programmes than the general
public..... (as I think I mentioned the other night) As this appears
mainly to be a public voted chart, regardless of the rights or wrongs of the
decision ST has a higher profile now than DW just by the virtue that it's
been shown constantly for the last ten years on the BBC and DW hasn't. Is
this right ? Probably not.

I'd like to see the results of an IFIS poll on the matter - if Nick's unable
to get a poll going on the web site I'd be willing to do conduct an email
poll and collate the results.

But that doesn't explain Sapphire and Steel which is (begging CL's pardon) a
minority interest.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
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<plenty snipped>
The more I watch these shows (my Saturday nights tend
to be free in winter; ask Izzy, she'll explain) the
more convinced I become that the running order is
based on the avaliability of talking heads related to
the shows to be used in the 'commentry' slots.


Jon

=====
"One good day of the week
And I'll be up again
One good day of the week
And I'll be higher than the government"

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Nokia Game is on again.
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and
Cos the X-Files is a load of old twaddle. B5 should have been there
though.

Where is the ifis meeting tonight?

Love,
Lizz



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I need to leap to the defence of the X-Files series 1 which was generally very good,
original and imaginative. Diffrent from everything else at the time. The first episode
is brilliant, and I can watch that again and again..... All the stuff with the driving
through woods, and the scene in the evidence room....
Agreed. But hardly any public recognition beyond sci fi fans though. Very sad, but
true.

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B% should have been there (then again the last season was pretty poor by
b5 standards)
crosslands

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This tagline has been cruelly tested on cute furry animals.

"Let me try on your dress, it turns me on when we're a mess...
We won't live forever now, so let's make the most of it somehow"

nothing@

I can remember being a B5 fan at the beginning and trying to convince people to watch it
during the first series - it was VERY hard, there's some stuff in there that isn't good at
all.

Then a few things happened: In particular Babylon Squared - the scene where the one takes
the helmet off hooks people, Chrysalis - just great, and the entirety of S2 :-) S2 is
really where many people leapt on board with it and there's some really great stuff in
there - pts of Departure, Revelations, Geometrics of Shadow and a Distant Star resolving
the story set off at the end of the last season and introducing Sheridan - potentially
where it could have all gone very pear. All Alone in the Night's dream sequence..... and
subsequent revelation about Sheridan. In The Shadow of Z'HaDum - big revelations, and
then the big episodes towards the end of the season: The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided
Loyalties and the Long Night: "After all it's the thought that counts"

C4: Knives & In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum and Long Twilight Struggle & Divided Loyalties were
each originally shown the other way round by C4. Having them this way round makes subtle
differences to the plot....
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people to watch it
that isn't good at
I started watching at the end of the fourth series, and was hooked through
the fifth series, following it pretty religiously (as far as C4's schedules
would allow). I couldn't tell you what all that shadows stuff was about.
I had no idea what that was, and still haven't really figured it out. I've
been told that they have something to do with the most part of seasons two
to four...

Love,
Lizz



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schedules
I've
I'm really impressed. I consider myself to be a B5 fan, but I think that
most of series 5 was rubbish. There were some good ones, but it felt like a
season where the filler episodes outnumbered the plot episodes. Bit like
Trek in that case :-). Beg, steal or borrow the first three seasons. You
won't be disappointed.

Andy
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Definitely. And keep pressing on during the first season when it feels heavy going -
there's little bits in there that build up the bigger picture of what is to come in a
similar sort of way to how Season 5 lets it drift off in different directions later ....
And eventually you'll reach Signs & Portents, Babylon Squared and Chrysalis....

I've got a set but there might be some closer to where you are Liz - try NickWa or the
BOB.

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heavy going -
to come in a
directions later ....
Chrysalis....
NickWa or the
I know someone with all of the videos - getting hold of them is easy.
Finding enough hours in the day to watch them is the difficult part...

I've seen a fair amount of season 1, but not all of it. I've seen some
episodes of season two, but not enough for it to make sense.

Love,
Lizz



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You do need to be watching them - or at least the important ones - in the right order.....

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Not me. Love B5, though admit I love it less towards the end, but no, don't
own copies of any of it.

---

The Borg assimilated my planet and all I got was email conveniently
delivered to my head instead of my pocket.
www.blackberry.net

--- Nick Waterman <nwaterman@> wrote:
I've got seasons 1 to 3 and the first few of season 4
on video (plus all of crusade & the TV movies). I've
decided to wait for the DVDs before getting the rest
of S4 & S5. IFIS people are welcome to borrow them.

Yes I am sad.

Paul

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Crosslands

decided
After being trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread for several years
it's now a popular thing to dislike the X-Files..... At the moment it just
doesn't have the mass market appeal it once did.

Just got the new TV Zone - C4 have the rights to show Enterprise !

Also in the same issue - wandering a little of the C4 topic - the 7th (and
last) Randall & Hopkirk Deceased episode (3 weeks time, this is the 4th) is
by Mark Gatsis and Jeremy Dyson, features Reece Shearsmith and is directed
by Steve Bendelack. Hmmmm - apparently the episode involves a shop....



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
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I gave up on it after series 3... so I no longer have a clue about it. It
just seemed to lose its mystique, and never could live up to season one.
Great, those that mean we can expect it to be badly cut, aired at random
times and then suddenly without warning moved to 1am at random weekly
intervals!

This got me for a few seconds but I *think* you've put your replies next to the wrong
paragraphs and the last sentance refers to Enterprise being on C4 ?

C4 have had a little recent history with the scissors and the mobile time slots, but I
don't think Enterprise will need so much cutting as Angel did. But there again look what
they did to B5 and Stargate.

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Philip Ayres
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Oh, we all know there's going to be another 2 years of farscape, I assume?
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/02/2148231&mode=thread

---

Nick Waterman, Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator, Research In Motion

Is that why it was cancelled in 1969 after only three years and
wasn't on telly again for another 20 years?

Adam

I'm looking forward to seeing Dr Who 10 in the cinema. The fourth spin-off
series can't be far off either. :-)

Andy
_____________________
andy@
www.knightsofni.freeserve.co.uk
07968 357 854

By that mark we're about due our big screen debut and I'll see you in 10 for the TV
revival.... By which pt Ian Richardson might be a tad too old ;-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
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yeah, shame about that. Oh well, I'm sure Stephen Fry would still
be around about the right age. Christopher Lee however... then again, he'll
probably live longer than McGann will.

Adam

Will serve the BBC right for not listening to the (very sensible)
suggestions I made in this Forum 18 months ago :-)
he'll
Why ? Are you expecting McGann to pop his clogs in the near future ?

Anyone know hoe old Christopher Lee is now ? Far be it for me to insinuate
that playing Dracula in all those Hammer films has had an effect on him and
he is going to live forever but he seems to have outlasted many of his
contemporaries by some distance. Peter Cushing may have been in the first
Star Wars film, but isn't Lee in the new (5th) on next year ?

And speaking of AotC have a look in the new Star Wars mag for pictures of
the new look the Senate Guards have for E2 - it's a little familiar....

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indeed, I remember those suggestions very well. very good
suggestions they were indeed. but then that's Auntie Beeb for you.
not really, but Christopher Lee's nearly 80 and STILL does all his
own stunts. I suspect some sort of ridiculously long lifespan. either that
or he actually IS remaining alive and strong by drinking the blood of young
virgins.
Particularly since the first Dracula film he starred in was made
over 40 years ago.
he's about 78/79 years old I think. Christopher Lee plays Count
D... something. I can only remember the Count D bit cos it seemed a little
familiar.... odd that.

Adam
The Chairbeing of Doom!!!

When I take them over in a coup my first act - after cancelling Eastenders - will be to
implement all those suggestions
It's a possibility. He said it not me, Adam's the one too sue for libel....
That is scary..... There again DW is 38 in a month's time !
Have a peak at:

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/cast.html

but a little bit spoilered.....


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Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
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15/10/01 16:54:44, Paul Ilsley <pumapowered@> wrote:
<SNIP>

Now I was completely trollied at the time I watched this, but is
Tom Baker seriously mad or what? I know most people may be
quick to point out that his lines would have been scripted but
all I have to say is "smelling the fingers".

Darren

Darren Snee <darrens@> wrote:
Yes he is completely insane.

I highly recommend his autobiography (which goes
someway to explain his madness).

Cheers,

Paul

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I think it could be said that Tom Baker probably "went mad" sometime
around 1996. That was the year Jon Pertwee died. Up until then he had all
but shunned the limelight and Doctor Who in particular. On the day after
Pertwee died he had a "visit" from a strange man in a brown suit who had
come to lay flowers on his gravestone (he has it set up in readiness) who
told him "you do realise that you are now the most senior Doctor Who". That
same man tried to nick his lawnmower the following night, but that's
incidental.

Basically when he realised he was most senior he decided to shun the
limelight no longer, but to appear through this front of absolute insanity.
either that or he realised that utter barminess is profitable.

Not that I begrudge him his insanity in any way, I rather like it.

Adam
The Chairbeing of Doom!!!

I was intending to have a "polls" engine in the new site that I've been
slowly putting together. Could easily have this as a recurring poll.

---

Nick Waterman, Blackberry Unix Systems Administrator, Research In Motion