(no subject)

Article I found while doing my job today...

Microsoft hacked

What more needs to be said that the title doesn't already say. Apparently
someone hacked into Microsoft from Russia and has had full access to them
for the past 3 months, including their source code. To be quite honest,
words fail me right now. The largest software company in the world has
probably had their source code stolen. Yes hacking happens, and even
Microsoft can be hacked, but the absolutely astounding thing here is that
this hacker had full access to their servers for three months. That's
just...I don't really know what to say except this guy's good at what he
does.

So much for Windows 2000's security. But don't worry, this wasn't a bug of
Microsoft's servers, it was a feature.

... can't help but smile :-D


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This tagline has been cruelly tested on cute furry animals.

"Let me try on your dress, it turns me on when we're a mess...
We won't live forever now, so let's make the most of it somehow"

nothing@

Nothing *innocent* wrote:
That's last friday's news. You only just found it?

It's also not Science Fiction, it's FACT :-)
Nah, apparently it was yet another "love bug" style email virus, and
someone inside microsoft, who really ought to have known better, was
stupid enough to actually RUN AN ATTACHED EXECUTABLE without checking it
first.

Recieve an email with an attachment. Double-click on the icon, say "yes,
run it", and it runs, maybe pops up a fake notepad document to pretend
it WAS useful, then noses around for any password files and emails them
to russia.

It's a security problem, yes, but it's mostly because M$ makes it so
easy to run unchecked executable attachments, and M$ users tend to be
stupid enough to run them. It's an "easily abusable outlook feature,
plus stupid user" security problem, not a server/firewall problem.

When was the last time you recieved an email from a friend saying
something like "hey! run this! it's really cool!"? Did you run the
attachment? Was it cool? Was it virus-infected? Are you sure? Did you
check it? With a virus checker that's less than 2 days old? When you ran
it, did it mail itself to all YOUR friends too? Did it eat a load of
your files? Did it email your password registry to russia? Are you sure?
When will people learn that "the industry standard" sucks?

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!

nahhh it was more likely a l33t k1dd13 H4x0r, it's not that hard to send
someone an e-mail attachment. All you need is a gullible victim. Oooooh look
all those employees at Redmond...
You been reading The Register have you? :)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14344.html
Of course I bloody well don't. I get norton to sniff it first, then open it
up in <insert favourite non-microsoft editor here> to see if there's any
tell-tale clues about (WshShell is a dead giveaway). Then, I dump it into my
virtual machine and see if it manages to trash the system. Only then does it
come anywhere near my real system :) Hey, I thorough!

After all the various worms that have been flying around recently, people
really should know better. I found that Mailsweeper (a content scanning
program) was an absolute godsend at my old workplace. It intercepts all
these nasty looking things way before they get anywhere near a user's PC.

anyway, back on topic...
;)

cheers
Asan
============================================
Asach Tu
elterwater@
http://bounce.to/asan
07855 10 66 55
============================================

Asan Tu wrote:
No way. Gave up on theregister years ago after I decided I'd read far
too much misinformation and bad journalism. blimey,
http://www.theonion.com/ tends to be far more accurate... or more
seriously, http://slashdot.org/

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!

it
my
it
Then we have more insidious things like KAK which require you to merely read
the mail and don't even need the launching of an attachment. It sets
outlook to send html mail, attaches itself as the sig and fwds itself that
way.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

nah... read it last friday... was going to send it sooner (IFIS caht has
been quite recently and so I've had nothing to read at work)
Yeah... but its a VERY nice FACT :-D
What I do it just run it at work or on the uni network (usually when I'm
not using my account). These two have nothing of interest to anyone or
me as far as I can tell *8)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This tagline has been cruelly tested on cute furry animals.

"Let me try on your dress, it turns me on when we're a mess...
We won't live forever now, so let's make the most of it somehow"

nothing@

Ermmmm, I won't say I haven't, but I will say I only run them if;
a) I asked for them
b) It is from someone I trust (this does NOT include IFIS chat)
c) I'm using the university's computer.

In addition, my computer at home as (at the last count), 4 separate
virus checkers (of various sorts), 3 of which autonatically update
themselves on-line at midnight every night. The 4th is a simple
scan-inserted-disks-for-anything-suspicious thingy, which is more of an
irritation than a help, because it slows down disk access while it's
scanning.

Simple, but effective. It's also pure bloody paranoia, because it's
been ages since I so much had a "There may be a virus in this file" warning,
let alone an actual virus. That is, of course, on my home computer, but
there's nothing particularly important on my universities machines.

Of course, the people with dissertations on their F-drives (or
whatever they are now) might disagree with me.

Oh, and as an aside, the college's e-mail virus checkers still
aren't operative, and they haven't purged the system properly yet either. I
know for a fact that most of the computers in the Queen's Annex have the "I
Love You" virus, so stay sharp.

See you!

<This happy message was brought to you by Paranoiacs and
Rumour-mongers anonymous. Have a nice life (Both seconds of it...>

Wingrove RJ wrote:
Let me stop you there. Point B is VERY VERY WRONG. You'll most likely
recieve it from a friend, who you probably trust, and you'll run it, and
it'll mail to all your friends in your address book, and they'll think
THEY are recieving it from someone they trust too... YOU!

OH, OK, nobody would trust YOU, good point ;-)
Better than the people who's only copy of their dissertation is on a
floppy disk, in their dusty bag, next to their magnetic headphones...

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
Alone, adj.: In bad company. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

I don't have an address book. Or at least, not one that's on any
form of magnetic media. Actually, that's rubbish, there's one on my PDA, but
that doesn't ever get connected to anything at all (I don't have the cables,
you see).

The point was, is that it's a simple check. I KNOW that most
attachment viruses will send themselves over from a friend's address book,
it's just a simple way of losing those few that come in from (for example)
any one of the mailing lists I am on. Or for when I get spammed (which does
happen, despite my filters).

There, does that make myself slightly clearer? I'm not in your (or
for that matter, a few other people's) class when it comes to computers, but
neither am I some innocent who (to quote someone not a million miles away)
believes computers are "magic boxes".
Harsh. And not even fair. I'm trustworthy, honest!
Been there. seen there, NEVER done it, and would have bought the
t-shirt, if they made any...

Wingrove RJ wrote:
I was joking, but the REAL point is still a valid one, which is
basically (to bring this back on-topic)... when it comes to viri...

... TRUST NO-ONE!!!

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
Alone, adj.: In bad company. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Deny everything ?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Deceive. Inveigle. Obfuscate.

if;
Am I right in thinking you can't send attachments via IFIS chat (or any of
out other lists ?)
I remember someone moaning that some work had been wiped from their mail
file when it got full of chat msgs a few years back - kids - don't store
stuff in your mail file.

And from earlier in the week you may have seen this:

PMA said
You thought I was joking ? well I've just this minute found out it's worse
than I thought. Remember we did warn you.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

worse
Well in case you didn't make it to the pub tonight you missed:

My good self and 4 Transformers, a book and 13 Blake's 6 videos.
Patric
Andy P
Adam Bob
Paul Bob
Stephen Bob Butler
Darren Bob and Helen Mrs Bob

We did warn you..... Great to see everyone again after nearly a years
absence.

and - Asan especially - this is what I'll be bringing with me next time

http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/nekotom/bw287.html


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Yeah it was great to see so many familiar faces again. Where the 'ell have
you lot been? :)
*drrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool*

So that's where everybody came from. I walked in to the pub, and was
just as confused as the next man (or woman, in some cases) as to who
everybody was. After a year, I thought I knew everybody in IFIS; do I now
have to contend with old hands showing up as well as new blood?
And why in hell did you all decide to turn up all at once after so
long (And how did you know we were at the Barley Mow, not the Ascot, as
was)?

Or is this some evil scheme to take IFIS back from us youngsters?

'Twas the result of a grand cosmic realignment, and the activities of
various eeevil cultists. The Stars Are Right! The Great Old Ones are rising!
Ai! Ai! Fhtagn! etc. ;-)

Laters

Steve :-)
_
__
(oO)
/||\

Great Old Ones I can live with, it's great old IFIS members I'm
planning on running away from... :-)

Ron

"On an island, a quiet island, Cthulhu sleeps tonight...."

Well, I don't know, I've been in IFIS on and off since 1996, and I only knew one
of them, even then because he does LARP! Mind you back then, I went to the agm
and everyone was convinced I was a finalist, despite being one of only about
two people in the room who were young enough for the committee... Foolish
Earth-men...
No doubt, they are all working for the Dark Side, and it will take years for the
younger ones to train as Jedi masters and defeat them all...

Love,
Lizz

Apres le petuit dejeuner il veut controller le monde
Mais il ne controlle le monde jamais.




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PMA:
RJW (1)
Traditionally there's always been a lot of the old firm around - the loss of our
traditional home was a bit of a blow for those of us who have to make a journey
in. Nickwa, Estelle, ChrisT, ChrisL, Wendy & Jim and Simon R are all ex
students as well.

Nickwa - have we got a gallery type page of photos of everyone with names on the
site ?

Asan:
Well I've been at home. As most people know I'm not a terribly well and sadly
my condition has got a lot worse over the last year or so to the pt where I'm
not able to drive down in the evenings - too tired. I'm now armed with a
disabled rail pass and alied with a lift from nhe station I'm able to get there
bif I make the effort

RJW(2):
I'd been trying to get down for a number of weeks. I'd spoken to Adam and
arranged a lift and then ran into some problems - level crossing crashes,
derailed trains etc .....

We set this week as a date Ads contacted the other Bob, I called Patric and Andy
and we all met up.
Quite right. Leave the factory in the hands of inexperienced so and sos....

S.Dismukes:
RJW(3)
I shall take then use of the word great as a complement. What got me was that
you were sure of having met me at killercon and knew me by name even though I
have no recollection of having met you before in my life....

From: elizabeth.raikes@ Save Address - Block Sender
Hmmm. I've been around reasonably regularly from graduation in 94 till mid 99.
Surprised I hadn't met you before. And which one were you ?
You see all those lightsabres in the back of members rooms - who do you think
got them for them ?


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk\~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<end>




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99.
I was wearing a spangly Placebo t-shirt, and I have long hair and glasses.
No, I don't usually venture into members rooms - Steve and his scary cthulhu
shrine were enough to terrify me for the remainder of my mortal days :P

Love,

Lizz




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Philip.Ayres@ wrote:
Not as such, mostly because these photos don't exist and/or haven't been
sent to me. www.ifis.org.uk/social/gallery/ has a load of pictures from old
xmas dinners and things, and
www.ifis.org.uk/social/people/ has a few profiles of
people who have been generous enough to supply them, but that's about
it.

Whilst you've reminded me though...

ALL society members are entitled to a profile-thingy on the IFIS
website, and I'd highly reccommend it. There's an example of how to do
it. It's easy, really really easy, and requires no real computer
knowledge or anything - if you can send email, you can send me a
profile! THIS MEANS YOU! GO DO IT!

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
"We are a free people here in the US(except where prohibited by law)"

Apres le petuit dejeuner il veut controller le monde
Mais il ne controlle le monde jamais.

Exterminetvous, Exterminetvous encore!

(with apologies for bad french.

Adam

Exterminez vous! Exterminez vous encore! I think.

One day I will get round to transcribing it... But I have now bought some more
tapes so I can copy it for you :)

Love,
Lizz

Everybody knows that boys are stupid
everybody knows that boys are witches
everybody knows that boys are bitches...




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Ah, I see, well, I did spanish at gcse.
YAY!!!!!! C'est demi Dalek. Et demi homme! Encredable!

Adam

I am a Dalek. I am a little man! Incredible.

www.e-lingo.com for more translation - and see you all tomorrow for some
shopping.

Veni, Vidi, Visa .....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk~payres
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<end>



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Visit our website at: http://www.bacon-woodrow.com

I thought it meant "he is half Dalek, and half man, Incredible" ie
its a description of Davros.
Cant wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adam

Wingrove RJ wrote:
Only when the stars are in alignment.
We have always been here. You just have to know where to look...
The force binds us together. Rather like cheese on a pizza. The Bob
are rather like pepperoni. When you pull one bit off, the cheese strings
pull all the other bits onto your lap.

Actually, I think I'll stop that analogy right there.
We have our spies amongst you. Besides contrary to popular belief we
can actually read.
Not at all. In fact the Bob lead the crusade to liberate IFIS from
the stagnated monarchy that came about when oldsters ran things. Our
work done, we faded into the background and went to work building a
fully operational battlestation out in the middle of nowhere just in
case it was needed.

The rumours and bad press that have been spread by the so called "Rebel
Alliance" are completely unfounded. Our "Death Star" (who's actual
name is the "Galactic Liberator") would only be used in the defense
of IFIS from any reactionary old order.

Use the cheese, fluke.

Adam

Remeber all you youngsters - one day you'll be old too..
_________________________________________________________________________
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Wendybelle Stallworthy-Burgess wrote:
... in fact we're only talking about 3 or 4 years, possibly less,
considering how "recent" some of the "unknown" "old" faces were last
night.

... and you'll still be interested in sci-fi, and you'll still watch
most of the same telly and films, and read most of the same books, as
the students, and you'll still be glad to attend thursdays to chat to
loads of like-minded people.

... and you'll probably be glad to offer help, advice, and resources to
any of the newbies, regardless of whether they ask for it.

... and someone will probably mistakenly think that you, and your type,
are scheming to run the society from the outside and take it away from
all the students.

... and you'll laugh as history repeats itself :-)

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
"We are a free people here in the US (except where prohibited by law)"

Having only just checked my e-mail (and was flabberghasted by the
response my off-the-cuff reply had got), I didn't get to read this until
now. I wasn't planning on replying, but I just thought I'd mention that I
have absolutely nothing against any of the "older" members of either IFIS or
Gamesoc, and am delighted to see new faces at the pub meetings (that's new
to me and various others). Science fiction and fantasy is a dying genre, and
needs all the support it gets. To this end, such societies like ours form a
vital and much-needed rendezvous where like-minded individuals can meet,
greet, and exchange their thoughts, knowledge and news. In this, as with so
much else, experience is a valuable commodity, and something that the
"younger" members should (and to the best of my knowledge, do) take
advantage of.

To conclude, my comment about "evil scheme to take IFIS back from us
youngsters" should be taken in the context it was written in, and not taken
as an insult or anything less than the joke it was intended to be. The
"older" members form an important part of IFIS, and I hope when I have left
university and have become such a veteran, I will be extended as warm a
welcome as I (in fact, we all) offer them now. Long may they remain.

See you, and my apologies go to anybody in general I may have
inadvertantly offended, and to Nick in particular, in case I've taken his
comment in the wrong way. Nevertheless, I stand by what I have said here,
which I think is something that has needed to be said for a very long time.

Ron

taken
left
But we are plotting... Just wait and see...

Andy
_____________________
andy@
www.knightsofni.freeserve.co.uk
07968 357 854

Wingrove RJ wrote:
Don't worry... I believe I said "and you will laugh" at the end. I
wasn't taking your comment seriously. For that matter, I may not have
been (deliberately) referring to your comment at all. It was just a
general collection of random musings about "oldies" vs "newbies" and how
funny it is to see history repeating itself every 2-3 years :-)

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!

In addition to my previous comments...

Love, paece and chocolate to all members of IFIS whether they be students or
ex-students or what ever, and just give everyone a hug.

Wendybelle

If life keeps throwing you sh*t, learn to grow roses.
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I do. On a regular basis. To the amusement of many and the
irritation of some...

Ron

"I ran to a place in the open sea,
Where I pledged my life to the sun.
It was good for a while, I could laugh, I could smile,
But when I woke up one day, the sun had gone."

Hmmm, funnily enough, we had noticed...

http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/nekotom/bw286.html

The Basic design of this looks *very* similar to SnapDragon. I remember
being able to use the tail of snapdragon to look like a long neck + head,
and make a third design out of it, which looks quite similar to the design
here...

Asan said:
I've recently acquired a Snapdragon as part of my quest to own all the Master
toys. It's a fine piece of kit with several alternate modes. For those who've
never seen it it's a Robot/Blackbird style jet/T-Rex changer where the Nebulan
pilot becomes the head for the robot and the beast. I've got a Brontosaur type
thing and some sort of winged beast as well as the std 3.

Nickwa said:
Blasphemer.

That's Brave Maximus. Brave Maximus is a recolour of an original transformer
toy FORTRESS Maximus. Fort Max was never released in the UK, and because of
it's size (60 cm high) in rather limited quantities in the US. A boxes original
specimen goes for about $1500 US.

The 3 main modes are Robot, Battle Station and City. The battle station is not
quite so obvious as it originally was due to the hand held weapons on the
original toy having been removed - there were 2 cannons that would have mounted
on either sides of the control tower pointing along the direction of the legs
and feet.

FM's main claim to fame is he's the only DOUBLE Headmaster. The Pilot was a
human called Spike in the original series (now called Plasma) who becomes the
head of Cerebros (now called Brave) which in turn becomes the head of Brave
Maximus.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Philip Ayres
payres@
www.netcomuk.co.uk\~payres
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<end>




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Philip Ayres wrote:
WOW! It's a robot that turns into a... ummm... errrr... thing!

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
This will be a memorable month - no matter how hard you try to forget
it.

Philip Ayres wrote:
They come out looking very very very WRONG.

Very long story, but in a nutshell... Email was never designed for
binary stuff, only text. Something called MIME was invented to encode
binary stuff as text for sending over email. This is what's used for
your attachments. It's also what's used when you send pound-signs,
because pound-signs don't count as "text"[1]. IFIS had some lists. RHUL
changed their email system to use the notoriously unreliable MESS [2].
RHUL accepted mail from IFIS for many tens of IFIS users, but then
dropped it on the floor. "yes, thanks for the mail", their server would
say, then dispose of it without delivering to any of you, and without
returning error messages or anything. Information Superhypewayman
contacts RHUL CC to ask 'em what's going on. They seem relatively sure
it's their anti-spamming stuff, but basically after several weeks of
email exchange, hair-pulling, and having no useable IFIS lists[4], RHUL
hadn't fixed it, and I decided I'd have to sort it out myself. Even
though the problem was at THEIR end, I'd find some way around it.
Sending only 5 emails at a time didn't help, but removing all MIME
headers, for no explainable reason[5], seemed to make the lists spring
back into life. Therefore, we've had MIME headers removed ever since,
and if you DO send attachments or pound-signs, they'll kind of go
through, in MIME format, but won't be recognised by your mailer as such,
because the MIME headers have been removed, so you'll see all the yucky
=A3 stuff that MIME does for pound-signs, and the yucky "base64 encoded"
stuff it does for attachments.

[1] at least not in the american standard[2] email uses
[2] ASCII
[3] MESS : Microsoft Exchange Server software
[4] Amusingly enough, they worked perfectly for anyone NOT using an
rhbnc.ac.uk email address.
[5] Unless you count "microsoft bug" [6]
[6] Sorry, "feature"

Yes, basically RHUL seems to be incapable of accepting back it's OWN
messages, in the same format that THEY sent out, if it's sent back to
more than about a dozen of their own users. IFIS has to basically
deliberately modify it to the simplest possible format. Makes no sense,
but it gets the lists working.

I might experiment with allowing MIME headers again sometime, but
unfortunately I can't just do a test with a handfull of people, because
then, in some mysterious way that only quantum physics could explain, it
works. Unfortunately I'd have to test by sending multiple test messages
to probably ALL of you, and annoy everyone :-(

---

Nick Waterman. Senior Systems Administrator, Sony Interactive Services
mailto:nick-sig@ http://www.nilex.co.uk/~nick/
AX25:G7RZQ@#32.GBR.EU #include <stddisclaimer> Team *AMIGA*!
"We are a free people here in the US(except where prohibited by law)"

errr not a good idea having more than 1 antivirus program in
operation at a given time, it is more trouble than it's worth. They'll
tend to
have a habit of fighting over each other for resources, tripping each
other up and things. Perhaps that's why you've not had an virus warning
for a while...

The antivirus programs given away on coverdiscs are sometimes ok, but
generally your antivirus is only as good as their last update, and the
biggies like Sophos, Symantec's norton and Network Associates Mcaffee tend
to be very quick on the updates (within hours normally).

Stick to one program like Norton or Mcaffee, and leave em to do their job
properly!

I've got a collection of viruses (melissa et al) on some floppies
somewhere, if someone
ever wanted to "release them" into the wild...

Happy hunting :)
Asan

===========================================================
Asach Tu
elterwater@
http://bounce.to/asan
07855 10 66 55
===========================================================

They're generally aimed at different things. One checks incoming
internet thingies, another checks inserted discs (or cd's, dvd's zip disks,
hard disks (!)), and one keeps an eye on my entire system. I can't remember
what the other one does, but I've never had any problems or error messages,
and I've never noticed any appreciable change in my machines performance.
Arggh, I can't remember what mine are. I know McAffee is one of
them, and I'm pretty sure the Norton suite included a virus checker, but I
could be wrong.

Oh, and I also don't trust coverdisks. I haven't ever since I
noticed the warning on them saying "While we make every effort to ensure our
disks are virus-free, we cannot accept any responsibility..." etc etc,
you've all read it a million times.
Like I said, I've never had any problems or error messages, and no
viruses either, so they must be doing their job properly!
Remind me to tell you about a very good friend of mine, who writes
viruses for a living. Actually, he writes virus checkers for a living, but
he tests them against the best programmer he knows (himself!).
Happy Prevention! (better than cure, and all that sort of thing)

Ron