Yeah Crusade again ...

Lets have a bit of spoiler space here ......

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Yes it does - I can list instances of the ones I quoted appearing in all
the eps
There is on occasions a distinct lack of urgency to what they were doing.

Visitors from down the street had no relation to the main thrust of the
story....
I liked Galen. But there we go.
As for his visions and hints in the pilot - he was trying to avoid the
attentions of the technomages at the time.
Following on from that point he is a little more open.
There was a lot to be explored about the Apocalypse Box. It's got some
hold on Gideon we don't know about.
Look at how it's previous owner behaved....
But the eps were serving the same purpose setting up what was to come !
their
The middle of B5 S1 has some really dire eps. I'd skip virtually
everything from "And the sky is full of Stars" to
"Voice in the Wilderness" (barring signs & portents) (Please someone
remind of something importnant I missed
from the eps I'm talking about)
Given time to develope, and the lack of TNT interferance (as I listed
elsewhere yesterday),
yeah Crusade would have been a fine show.

As it is - lots of undeveloped potential.



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As I'm not one to refuse a good fame war...
Where these mentioned in passing or actual plot lines - cos the episodes
I
saw did't use them. The drak are mentioned been are not seen again for
instance.
"on occasions", be serious, they spend nearly all their time doing
nothing
aout it - I can think of 6 episode were they ran off and do something
pointless (the "I forgive you" episode is a good example).

Galen is one of those characters which is gets in the way of the
mission.
With 5 billion lives at steak he goes off to find a graveyard and no-one
says anything.
As we said it build up the characters and their relationships - to an
extend
then Crusader never reached, even by it's end.

Daniel

Deploy flame throwers. After all the students who've been away all summer
just don't have full enough mailboxes yet do they :-)
Personally I prefer to watch first and flame later but ....

Drakh were in "each night I dream of home" as well as "War Zone"
Everything else I mentioned crops up on screen at some pt.
doing.
something
No. That's a case of gone to some ancient planet to look for something -
the premise of the series is to explore old planets to look for the tech -
hence IPX's presence - and yes Asan I do mean Interplanetary Expiditions
again ! - and found something unexpected and not useful. The ep also shed
light on the backgrounds of Gideon, Galen and (especially) Kim
No. But I believe it would have gone on to greater things ....

Then Chris said:
I defy you to watch the rest of B5 without "Mind War", "And the sky is full
of stars", "Signs and Portents", "Babylon Squared" and "Chrysalis".

"Midnight on the firing line"(Narn/Centauri - what does Kosh look like) ,
"Soul Hunter"(Hints at Sinclair/Valen - Soul stuff), "Born to the
Purple"(Adira), "Parliment of Dreams"(Religion and Catherine Sakai),
"Deathwalker"(Vorlons nasty/Telepaths), "Legacies"(Chrysalis hint), "Voice
in the wilderness 1 & 2" (Epsilon 3 and Draal) and "The Quality of
Mercy"(healing machine) are also useful.

Infection is the IPX intro ep - tosh though it is...
War Prayer - problems at home.
Survivors - Garibaldi's Alcholism
By Any Means Necessary would have made sense later - Sinclairs defence of
the strikers is a foreshadowing of Valen's support of the Minbari worker
caste and the theme of the people who actually do the work which pops up
from time to time in B5 - notably in View from the Gallery.
Grail is the lets remind people that the vorlons are scary ep.
Eyes is your first hint that Ivanova is a teep.

Sod - that's 20 eps. Oh well I defy anyone to defend Believers & TKO !

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Philip Ayres
E-Mail: payres@
Web Site: www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
ICQ: 40853612
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Deploy flame throwers. After all the students who've been away all summer
just don't have full enough mailboxes yet do they :-)
Personally I prefer to watch first and flame later but ....

Drakh were in "each night I dream of home" as well as "War Zone"
Everything else I mentioned crops up on screen at some pt.
doing.
something
No. That's a case of gone to some ancient planet to look for something -
the premise of the series is to explore old planets to look for the tech -
hence IPX's presence - and yes Asan I do mean Interplanetary Expiditions
again ! - and found something unexpected and not useful. The ep also shed
light on the backgrounds of Gideon, Galen and (especially) Kim
No. But I believe it would have gone on to greater things ....

Then Chris said:
I defy you to watch the rest of B5 without "Mind War", "And the sky is full
of stars", "Signs and Portents", "Babylon Squared" and "Chrysalis".

"Midnight on the firing line"(Narn/Centauri - what does Kosh look like) ,
"Soul Hunter"(Hints at Sinclair/Valen - Soul stuff), "Born to the
Purple"(Adira), "Parliment of Dreams"(Religion and Catherine Sakai),
"Deathwalker"(Vorlons nasty/Telepaths), "Legacies"(Chrysalis hint), "Voice
in the wilderness 1 & 2" (Epsilon 3 and Draal) and "The Quality of
Mercy"(healing machine) are also useful.

Infection is the IPX intro ep - tosh though it is...
War Prayer - problems at home.
Survivors - Garibaldi's Alcholism
By Any Means Necessary would have made sense later - Sinclairs defence of
the strikers is a foreshadowing of Valen's support of the Minbari worker
caste and the theme of the people who actually do the work which pops up
from time to time in B5 - notably in View from the Gallery.
Grail is the lets remind people that the vorlons are scary ep.
Eyes is your first hint that Ivanova is a teep.

Sod - that's 20 eps. Oh well I defy anyone to defend Believers & TKO !

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Philip Ayres
E-Mail: payres@
Web Site: www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
ICQ: 40853612
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A note from a VERY p****d off student with a full mail box upon
returning to uni.

Is there a reason why those of you with access to e-mail at home
insist on filling Chat with a pointless flame war that does little more
than fill up our in-boxes and make it impossible for some of us to
actually access our limited resource, university provided systems
in order to do some real work.

Under normal circumstanes I wouldn't mind, but you are, quite
frankly, taking the piss.

Of the 200+ messages I had waiting for me on my return to uni, the
vast majority were from you Philip. I'm sorry to tell you this but
some of us don't care to have every minute detail of every little
incident disected one e-mail at a time.

Also, as a general point, could we possibly have some sort of ban
placed on the discussion of shows that those of us unable to get
Sky or cable will not be able to see in the foreseeable future. Yes I
know we have the "spoiler space" system, but sooner or later
someone forgets to add it while responding to a message and
everything gets blown wide open.

Last, but by no means least; Daniel proof read your messages
before sending them. At times it is like reading Bascule's parts
from (the excellent) "Feersum Endjin"

Okay, rant over.


Jon

Rant mode on

A ban on series that haven't appeared on standard TV...

Why not make it a ban on books you haven't read, films you haven't
seen and shows you haven't watched... oh don't forget comics, con's, and
anything else...
That leaves very little else - I can't help thinking you are taking
the piss here!!!

The chat list for once has a discussion on a science fiction series -
not just the usual, "what are we doing tonight?" discussion. Which
doesn't
even belong on the ifis chat list and you complain. What do you expect
a science fiction based chat bulletin board to have - news about the
wheather!!!

You don't have to read every e-mail you get, that's why we give them
titles,
I give you some advice - use the delete function of your e-mail browser.

Rant mode off

Daniel

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I haven't seen Crusade, only the pilot. Unfortately I thought that was a bit
weak, so I'm holding no real hopes for the series.
Agreed. Galen's methods do seem a little too bizarre. However, in terms of
being annoying, I would place that tag on any of the new characters
introduced in the pilot. Galen seemed to me to be the best developed new
character.
Well, checking against the back of the videos, those episodes are as
follows:

Deathwalker: Below par, but demonstrates that the Vorlons are not above
meddling in the affairs of the other races. Very important in light of later
events.

Believers: Crass, bordering on offensive, moralising about the beliefs of
others. Best avoided.

Survivors: Main plot is a foiled attempt on the Earth President's life.
Shows that the President has enemies who are prepared to kill him. You only
need to look 11 episodes ahead to see the importance of this. One of the
better Season 1 eps.

By any means necessary: Docking bay accident, yadda yadda, dockers on
strike, yadda yadda, Sinclair saves day. Ok episode with no real long-term
consequenses.

Signs and portents: Meet the Shadows. Say no more.

TKO: Oh dear. Avoid.

Grail: Michael York arrives pretending to be King Arthur. Sounds rubbish,
but is actually a fun episode. First time the details of the fateful first
contact between Eathforce and Minbari ships are revealed. G'Kar also
demonstrates for the first time that he isn't just an antagonistic hate
machine.

Eyes: First hint of Ivanova's latent telepathic abilities. Otherwise
rubbish.

Legacies: Shows that the Minbari are not a unified race. There are
individual factions with their own motivations. This division will
ultimately erupt into civil war. Not a good episode though.

So there you have it. Season 1 is often derided as rubbish, but there is
actually a whole lot more going on than most realise.

Andy

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Website: http://zap.to/leopard

rubbish,
Nope you're thinking of A Late Delivery From Avalon from S3. And it is a
good G'Kar ep.

This is the one where David "I don't only do sci fi" Warner shows up hunting
for the Holy Grail.
It's also got the crook with the fake Vorlon Suiot containing the NaKlon
feeder...

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Philip Ayres
E-Mail: payres@
Web Site: www.netcomuk.co.uk/~payres
ICQ: 40853612
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Both "Grail" and "Late delivery..." are great eps. "Late delivery..."
has quite a bit of depth to it
as it ties into many aspects we are only just learning at the time. This
was a great aspect of B5,
one which rarely appeared in Crusader.

If we are comparing dire eps then I must admit that both B5 and Crusader
has their share (Gray 11 or
what ever number it was is just pointless - same with TKO). But with
Crusader they were mostly dire;
the eps with the "I forgive you" monster was so lame it was amazing.

As for exploring old planets - is this why they are always going back to
B5 or adding as guards
to a conference or finding a graveyard etc. This just isn't the sense of
pending doom there should
be, the virus is a great driver for a plot, but it wasted in too many
eps.

The whole thing feels like a inexperience role playing group, where
every body has their own
thing and keeps to themselves. Instead of doing the obvious - getting
together in a room and
pooling their resources. This gives in a very unreal feeling. In B5 the
main characters
did get together and explain things to each other and act as a team.
Surely the trained crew
of a warship can do this.

Daniel

This sounds to me rather a lot like what I call Voyager syndrome.
If they do a plot that relates to the virus, then you know that they
won't find the cure. If they don't mention it what is the point of the
plot. Aren't they just wasting time etc. etc.?
(for Voyager read get home rather than virus)
Of course neither series can get round this. If they get what they want,
end of story. This would of course improve Voyager rather massively.

Chris Lyth
...................................................
I'm not sexist. I just don't trust anything that can bleed for 5
days and not die.

hunting
Oh yes. Whoops. I haven't seen Grail for a while but I'm sure there is a
reason for that.

Andy

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Email: andy@
Website: http://zap.to/leopard