Star Wars Vs Star Trek , Battle scenes from DS9 : Sacrifice of angels

Hi all,

Right, for all those who saw the DS9 episode we showed on thursday.

Now, having seen what the dominion did to a Federation fleet,
who still doesn't believe that the empire would just twat the entire fleet
with ease?

Matt ( I think?) who commented why the federation fleet had USS defiant (a
"tiny fighter ship") as their flagship.
I'll have you know that that "tiny fighter ship" is more heavily armed that
most full sized cruisers ships, and managed to crap all over a full sized
(star trek III) excelsior class ship in one of the earlier DS9 episodes,
home front I think it's called? It was a ship specifically to take on the
borg, and although it was beaten about a bit in First Contact, it was
completely obliterated like most of the other ships there.

For those asking why didn't they just fly around the entire cardassian /
dominion fleet, it would have exposed their flank!!! For those not familiar
with military terms, get someone to whack you in the chops, close to your
kidneys. Now, that's gonna hurt a helluva lot more than someone trying to
punch you straight on!!!
Similar answer to andy's question about why they didn't just fly over them
all.

cheers
Asan

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Chris presumably...
Yes, geat, but if the mission was that important, why didn't they cloak the
Defiant a long time before contact, and fly it round. If anyone says that it
could be detected and destroyed, just remember that the Cardassians had
bigger fish to fry at the time, like the 600 capital ships closing in.
Well, if you want to discuss tactics, the first recommendation would have
been to disperse both fleets a little more. With all those phaser beams
going off I find it hard to believe that no friendly-fire incidents would
have occurred. In an engagement that crucial, you don't want to be blowing
your own ships up.

The next recommendation would have been a massed torpedo volley as an
opener, rather than a few pathetic little fighters. Causing mass damage as
early as possible could have swung the battle in the Federation's favour.
600 ships firing full spread of Photon/Quantum torpedos would have been an
impressive sight, but we were denied that.

Concentration of fire: Identify the enemy's key ships, then get as many of
your ships as possible to fire on them, then keep firing until it is
crippled or obliterated. Then move on to the next target. Don't do what I
saw, which was each ship engaging one-on-one. (Except for the Defiant, which
seemed to have a rather pathetic bodyguard.)

Once the hole has been punched, every ship breaks for it. Not just the
Defiant. Divert all shields to the rear, and keep running and firing
backwards until you either die or get there.

Just a few thoughts...

Andy

Because time was of the essence. The quickest route was straight through,
which the cardassians unfortunately realised too, hence the big fleet.
Also, one ship out alone is one hell of an easy target for a group of about
3 or 4 enemy ships on patrol.
They did. If you watch the scene where the klingons help the defiant get
through, they end up blowing up one of their own bird of preys in the
onslaught.
Phaser beams can be absorbed by shields a bit better. Let's face it, getting
hit by a phaser is gonna hurt a lot less than getting whacked by a torpedo.
So, they'd all have loadsa of torpedoes being fired would they? sounds like
they'd be worse off, because the torpedoes are locked on and follow their
target. They don't avoid any ship stupid enough to run into it!! Also,
phaser beams last a lot shorter, whereas a torpedo may hang around for a
while, and pose more of a danger for any ship coming through from behind.
Again, the great number of torpedos would have meant those at the rear
risking hitting those ships on the front line before they even got near
their targets. Also, the blast radius of a torpedo would have been more of a
danger to any ships nearby. It's why you don't use grenades in confined
areas :)
Bit difficult to concentrate fire on one ship when all the others are
targetting you!!

They didn't engage one on one, they had three or four ships covering each
other, as most fighter planes do nowadays :)
Defiant had gotten through quite a few of their battle lines before the hole
was punched, and was out on it's own. The klingons attacked the enemies
flank, which gave them a bit of a whole to get through. Every other ship was
having their own little problems with other enemy ships, and if they had run
for it, would have got twatted from behind.
Ahhh little problem being that there are still great bit sodding battleships
in front of you, and firing all their weapons at you like mad????


cheers
Asan

They don't have to go far round the fleet, just out of phaser range would
do. As you pointed out, the Defiant is more than capable of taking on much
larger ships. If time was of the essence it would have ignored the patrol
ships and gone for the anti-graviton (whatever the hell that is) emitter.
Once that has been taken out, the rest is academic.
Which only goes to prove my point.
Think three-dimensionally. It's relatively easy to open the fleet out enough
so that everyone gets a go. The blast radius of a torpedo does make it a
useless close-quarters weapon, which is why I suggested using it at the
beginning. Think of the torpedo volley as an opening artillery barrage.
Taking on an undamaged fleet with a 2:1 numerical advantage is suicide. This
is why it is a good idea to soften them up first with torpedoes.
Think how much worse it would be for the Cardassian ship being targetted by
over 50 Feds. : )
Well, whatever. It still wasn't as effective as it could have been.
Er, no. Not if you have done what I said and gone through the hole. If you
have performed this relatively simple maneuver you will find that - shock
horror - all the enemy ships are behind you. Now all you need do is run.

Another little thing: I'm surprised that since transporting through a shield
is no problem now, no-one has thought of the ultimate weapon: boarding
parties. A couple of men (preferably in red uniforms) get transported to a
vital section of an enemy ship with demolition charges. Or you could
transport a crack unit aboard and get them to storm the bridge. A sadly
missed opportunity I feel.

Andy

AS far as transporters as weapons go, remember that the level of the
Dominion'ss technology is such that when they first appeared, they
beamed their agent off DS9 through the wormhole apparently. However this
was acheived, it does look like beaming through shields aint a problem
(or shouldn't be) for them.
Plus boarding parties aren't the ultimate use of this. Just beam that
bit of the ship's hull directly above the bridge off, or the engine
core.

Chris

Actually I'm not really a fish. I'm an elevator.
I just moonlight as a fish for the extra cash.


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I was thinking about this and you could have some fun by beaming out the
antimatter containment system. Or by getting a stock-standard torpedo
warhead, transporting it into a turbo lift, then send it to the bridge. Just
imagine the scene: Middle of a battle, the shields are at 16% (again), then
the lift arrives. Everyone turns to look at the doors, which open to reveal
a warhead about to go critical. Brown trousers time.
The ultimate use however would be to transport Tribbles aboard. That would
be terrifying.

Andy

If you've got transporter, you can have no end of fun (you can beam
anti-matter by the way).

But the worse misuse is only transporting 3-5 people across to attack
other ships, why not hundreds.
Or as suggested a few bombs. Beaming bits out sound bril, just for the
annonence factor. "Where did I put
that spanner???" tribbles would have a similar effect.

Now we know you can break the zeroth law of thermodaynamic - self
replacating mines - there no end
of ways you can go round killing each other in the Star Trek universe.

Daniel

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wren A wrote:
Surely the sensors would pick it up or something. Any way, I'm sure
Data could quickly teleport it off the ship in the few nanoseconds there was
left.
They're only "bad" if you feed them. Do you think a crew in the middle of
battle would have time? Actually thinking about it, there's always at least
one annoying tw*t onboard (ie Wesley Crusher) who'd accidently leave them in
the food storage areas.

Chris

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