musings (1998/07/06)

musings

Posted by Chris L on 1998/07/06 17:19

Earlier on today Simon asked if South Park was SF, and I replied
that at least the first episode is, simply 'cos it's got aliens in it.
This started me thinking. (Always dangerous:->)
There is perhaps a general case for considering most animated TV
fodder as SF, or at least IFIS chat worthy.
There are a lot of crap
action cartoons which have premises which automatically fit, (even
if you think the idea of a teenage ancestor of the last pharaoh being
protected by a group of 4 reborn mummies with magical amulets is
just stupid, Mummies alive at least classifies as truly awful fantasy.

Warner Bros. cartoons have many premises lifted straight out of SF as well.
Talking (occasionally) intelligent animals, martians, Frankenstein's
furry denture. Indeed Duck Dodgers is a direct homage to a certain kind of SF.

Simpsons are not SF per se, but the elastic reality, (to use Groening's
phrase) produces many moments rarely seen elsewhere. The Simpsons
also pays direct homage to SF greats on a regular basis. 2001 has
appeared at least twice in what I have seen, DS9 has had it's moment,
Mulder and Scully appeared as themselves in an episode that also
featured ALF, Kodos and Kang, Chewbacca, Leonard Nimoy, Marvin
the Martian, and him from The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Ren and Stimpy have alter egos in Captain Hoek and Cadet Stimpy
and lampoon the hell out of Star Trek.

Disney films, while juvenile and usually crap, also tell tales which fit the
Fantasy genre, (and on a side note Disney has produced such films as
The Black Hole and Tron, We should kill them all now for that)

Pinky and The brain usually use SF techniques to try to take over the world.
(Gollyzilla appeared on Saturday in P&TB) They have also mirrored Around
the World in 80 Days, and a hell of a lot of other famous SF stories.

I could list hundreds of these, but I think what I have listed demonstrates
my main point.
Even if they are not entirely SF, the best of those listed above regularly
celebrate the best in SF, which is what IFIS was set up to do. I therefore
humbly suggest that certain cartoons may well be considered on topic for
the list. If anyone disagrees feel free to flame, I'll just drop an anvil on your
heads later.
...............................................................................
clyth@
I fail to see any connection between national pride and
22 men kicking a glorified pig's bladder around a field.

musings

Posted by Philip Ayres on 1998/07/06 21:20

It should be pointed out that JMS cut his teeth writing for amongst others
He Man & The Masters of The Universe, The Real Ghostbusters, Jayce and the
Wheeled Warriors - hands up if you remember that ! and Captain Power & The
Soldiers of the future.....

These sins should not be held against him though !

-----Original Message-----
From: Lyth Chris <Chris.C.Lyth@>
To: 'chat' <chat@>
Date: 06 July 1998 17:22
Subject: musings

Earlier on today Simon asked if South Park was SF, and I replied
that at least the first episode is, simply 'cos it's got aliens in it.
This started me thinking. (Always dangerous:->)
There is perhaps a general case for considering most animated TV
fodder as SF, or at least IFIS chat worthy.
There are a lot of crap
action cartoons which have premises which automatically fit, (even
if you think the idea of a teenage ancestor of the last pharaoh being
protected by a group of 4 reborn mummies with magical amulets is
just stupid, Mummies alive at least classifies as truly awful fantasy.

Warner Bros. cartoons have many premises lifted straight out of SF as well.
Talking (occasionally) intelligent animals, martians, Frankenstein's
furry denture. Indeed Duck Dodgers is a direct homage to a certain kind of

SF.

Simpsons are not SF per se, but the elastic reality, (to use Groening's
phrase) produces many moments rarely seen elsewhere. The Simpsons
also pays direct homage to SF greats on a regular basis. 2001 has
appeared at least twice in what I have seen, DS9 has had it's moment,
Mulder and Scully appeared as themselves in an episode that also
featured ALF, Kodos and Kang, Chewbacca, Leonard Nimoy, Marvin
the Martian, and him from The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Ren and Stimpy have alter egos in Captain Hoek and Cadet Stimpy
and lampoon the hell out of Star Trek.

Disney films, while juvenile and usually crap, also tell tales which fit

the

Fantasy genre, (and on a side note Disney has produced such films as
The Black Hole and Tron, We should kill them all now for that)

Pinky and The brain usually use SF techniques to try to take over the

world.

(Gollyzilla appeared on Saturday in P&TB) They have also mirrored Around
the World in 80 Days, and a hell of a lot of other famous SF stories.

I could list hundreds of these, but I think what I have listed demonstrates
my main point.
Even if they are not entirely SF, the best of those listed above regularly
celebrate the best in SF, which is what IFIS was set up to do. I therefore
humbly suggest that certain cartoons may well be considered on topic for
the list. If anyone disagrees feel free to flame, I'll just drop an anvil

on your

heads later.
...........................................................................

....

clyth@
I fail to see any connection between national pride and
22 men kicking a glorified pig's bladder around a field.

musings

Posted by Simon Richardson on 1998/07/08 14:43

In article <"/GUID:56E17CE2B712D211BB63000000000001*"@MHS>, Lyth Chris <Chris.C.Lyth@> wrote:

Earlier on today Simon asked if South Park was SF, and I replied
that at least the first episode is, simply 'cos it's got aliens in it.
This started me thinking. (Always dangerous:->)
There is perhaps a general case for considering most animated TV
fodder as SF, or at least IFIS chat worthy.

[lots of examples]

Simpsons are not SF per se, but the elastic reality, (to use Groening's
phrase) produces many moments rarely seen elsewhere. The Simpsons
also pays direct homage to SF greats on a regular basis. 2001 has
appeared at least twice in what I have seen, DS9 has had it's moment,
Mulder and Scully appeared as themselves in an episode that also
featured ALF, Kodos and Kang, Chewbacca, Leonard Nimoy, Marvin
the Martian, and him from The Day the Earth Stood Still.

I can certainly see what you are saying, especially with The Simpsons -
there are so many references to so many different things that The Simpsons
is absolutely priceless just from that point of view.

What I would ask (and why I did ask) is that the discussion about - say -
"The Springfield Files" (Simpsons X-Files episode) be clearly introduced as
"SF comes to The Simpsons" and not "coo, the Simpsons is good." Some of us
won't have seen these things - I had never heard of "South Park" before this
discussion - and won't have any idea what these things are, or how they
relate to SF.

It's also not fair to say "some episodes of The Simpsons include SF so every
episode of The Simpsons is relevent". It isn't.

On the other hand, if you haven't seen "The Springfield Files", then get it.
It is a very good send-up, with Leonard Nimoy, David Dubrovny and Gillian
Anderson all coming to Springfield. They have everything X-files: the
music; the bizarre thingies going on in the background; the Chris Carter
camera angles; the white writing in the bottom corner of the screen;
everything. It is hysterical.

[...]

I could list hundreds of these, but I think what I have listed demonstrates
my main point.

Even if they are not entirely SF, the best of those listed above regularly
celebrate the best in SF, which is what IFIS was set up to do. I therefore
humbly suggest that certain cartoons may well be considered on topic for
the list. If anyone disagrees feel free to flame, I'll just drop an anvil on your
heads later.

Episodes that are *SF relevent* are certainly on-topic. The episode of "The
Simpsons" where Lisa discovers the Truth about Jebadiah Springfield, or the
episode where Bart chops his head off, to name but two examples, aren't.
Funny, yes. SF, no.

It's an important distinction.

Simon

---
"This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind" -Ecclesiastes 4:16

simon@ | Not affiliated to any religion
simon@ | Not affiliated to any politics
H (+44/0)1784 431998 | Not affiliated to any ideology
W (+44/0)1784 434568 (GMT/BST) | What does that make me?

"I have been asked to point out, as if you couldn't guess, that my rantings
are not the opinions of One Chip Solutions. So now you know, don't you..?"

musings

Posted by Chris L on 1998/07/13 15:13

On the other hand, if you haven't seen "The Springfield Files", then get it.
It is a very good send-up, with Leonard Nimoy, David Dubrovny and Gillian
Anderson all coming to Springfield. They have everything X-files: the
music; the bizarre thingies going on in the background; the Chris Carter
camera angles; the white writing in the bottom corner of the screen;
everything. It is hysterical.

It was my tape you borrowed. So yup I agree it is a wonderful episode.

Episodes that are *SF relevent* are certainly on-topic. The episode of "The
Simpsons" where Lisa discovers the Truth about Jebadiah Springfield, or the
episode where Bart chops his head off, to name but two examples, aren't.
Funny, yes. SF, no.

Lessee, The one where Bart chops Jebediah's statue's head off,
- The Telltale Head, The title and a huge chunk of the plot are a
direct rip off of the Poe story The Telltale Heart. I think aping Poe
rates it as admissible. That is however just my opinion.

...............................................................................
clyth@
The reason Richard Gere was found with a beer
bottle up his bottom:-
The hamster was thirsty.