Proxy voting

A recent question regarding proxy voting has lead to the discovery of a
large hole in the Ifis constitution. Section h/ of the Ifis constitution
says:

Proxy voting rights for full memebers of RHULSU Institute for
Impure Science shall be granted as outlined in the RHULSU constitution.

Unfortunately there are no rules for proxy voting in the SU
constitution. This means that we either need to remove the right to
proxy voting from the constitution or insert our own rules. I have
spoken to the SU elections officer and he says that we can basically do
what we want as far as proxy voting goes. I would propose therefore the
following amendment to the constitution.

Proxy voting rights for shall be granted to full members of the
RHULSU Institute for Impure Science. The votes shall be written and
placed in a sealed envelope to be given to the chairman prior to
meeting.

I've just seen Luke (he leaned over my shoulder as I wrote this) and he
agrees with it. If anyone has any comments to make (or improvements to
the wording) please feel free.
The agenda for tonight will therefore be:

1. Constitutional amendment: as outlined above.

2. Elections as stated in the constitution.

3. Any other business (AOB)

[ 4. go down pub.]

Jon

P.S. apologies to anyone who is going to get this twice.

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Hart J.D wrote:
2 mins possibly
Ooooooooh this depends on how many candidates there are :)
There's probably a few things we need to sort out, like access to the
library at the union at the weekends.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh couple of hours dedicated to this *very* important part of
the agenda
:)
/me presses D

see you tonight
Asan

===========================================================
Asach Tu
elterwater@ <----- send mail here
http://www.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk/~asach <--- homepage here
0956 151 141 <------- mobile here
"Take the time to make some sense, of what you wanna say...
And cast your fears away upon the waves..."
===========================================================

Previously, Asach Tu wrote....
And in the context of proxy voting you also need to know _who_ the
candidates are - something we won't know until during the elections. I
guess proxy voting really won't work for this part will it?
Usually the committee already have a list of things for this part?

Chris

---

chris@ #include <stddisclaimer.h> http://www.instituteofcorrection.org.uk/

"So this is really me? A no-style gimbo with teeth druids could use as a
place of worship" - Duaine Dibley (Red Dwarf - "Back to Reality")

This is something that could do with sorting out for next year (its a
bit late for this year however). A possibility is you put down who you
want to vote for, if that person is then nominated the vote stands if
they aren't then it counts as an abstention. The other possibility is to
state that candidates must be nominated in advance although I forsee
this being difficult and impratical (e.g. the "candidate" suddenly not
turning up at the AGM).
There are currently no items to be included in AOB (that I'm
aware of), the question of access to the union I feel is something for
the committee to take up with the union rather than a subject for an
AGM. On Adam's point there is apparently an SU "observer" being sent to
all society AGMs so we'll see if anyone turns up.
Jenny's amendment to the amendment (if that makes sense) has
validity. The other possibility is just to delete the word "full" or
"ordinary" in the amendment and the word "ordinary" from section e(i) of
the constitution as that seems to be the root of the problem.

Jon

Asach Tu wrote:
You would have thought so wouldn't you? But past experience has shown
that these things take ages. Still I think we managed to keep an
amendment down to 15 minutes last year. Perhaps we can beat that
record...
At least 1 hour. Possible more.
Hmm, guess the comittee ought to ask someone along from the union then.
That will be difficult to arrange at such short notice. Couldn't
you have brought it up a little earlier? :-)
I think we all are agreed that this is the most essential part of the
agenda. It has been moved in the past to make this the first item
of business, but passed experience has shown that later points then
suffer...

Later,

---

Adam Hattrell, Support, Cimio Ltd. adam@

In article <D0A9B8B85FACD11188DC0000C0F06ACF0EEFD9@>, "Hart J.D" <J.D.Hart@> wrote:
Your constitution states that "
"Associate and Honorary Life members shall be entitled to hold ordinary
membership of the RHULU Institute for Impure Science. Yhis includes rights
such as voting rights."

No definition of "full" seems to exist....

I am described on my card as a "Life Member", not "Associate" or "Honorary
Life member", but I guess that covers me :-).

How about:
Furthur, I for one do not *know* yet if I will be able to attend *all* the
meeting. Do you think it would be okay for me to hand over my proxy vote if
I have to run for it before the voting is done?

Other than that, see you later :-)

Jenny Gould

---
jenny@

"Share and Enjoy"
-Marketing Division, Sirius Cybernetics Corporation

(The above opinions do not represent a policy statement for or on behalf of
One Chip Solutions)

"Hart J.D" <J.D.Hart@> wrote:
rights
"Honorary
This raises an important point. It was my understanding that there no
longer existed such a thing as a life member. It came up a few years ago
(among other things) that basically the Union won't wear the idea of life
members as it'd basically a false way of having members and therefore they
can't shut it down. I guess it kind of makes sense. As a result both IFIS
and Gamesoc axed life membership. Am I completely misremembering or what?


Richard

No, your completely correct.

IFIS and Gamesoc no longer have life membership,however,
maybe the constitutions need updating to this effect. I
thought they already had been updated though ?
Paul Ilsley
Paul.Ilsley@ (Work)
Pauli@ (Home)
"The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard."

Ilsley, Paul G said:
I am not ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE that the constitution as shown on
the web pages is the 100% official one, but seeing as the SU have YET
AGAIN lost the one we gave them, and seeing as jonathon has printed
out the copy from the web pages for use in the last meeting, it seems
to have been re-adopted as the most official version we've got at the
moment.

I'll be making this year's changes to it later today, if I get time.

... but to answer the question, yes, as someone else pointed out, the
"life members" bit in the constitution seem to refer to RHULSU life
members, not IFIS life members, which (despite what CLyth was hoping)
don't exist any more.

... and I'd just like to add that even when I was a "life member of
IFIS", I still payed my 3 quid EVERY YEAR, so NER! I don't think the
society funds had anything to do with the decision, it was entirely
based on the fact that the SU were disallowing life members of
societies.

---

Nick Waterman. Network Consultant / Sysadmin - LEOnet
Beating tomorrow's technology into submission.
nick-sig@ Team *AMIGA*!
This young lady has delusions of adequacy.

members as it'd basically a false way of having members and therefore they
can't shut it down. I guess it kind of makes sense. As a result both IFIS
and Gamesoc axed life membership. Am I completely misremembering or >what?


According to my memory, life membership was reinstated wiyth the proviso that it lasts for a person's life, or that of the society; whichever is shorter.
...............................................................................
clyth@
In relativity, matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter
how to move. The Heart of Gold told space to get knotted...
D. Adams Life, The Universe and Everything

----------
From: Richard Mines
Sent: 08 March 1998 23:50
To: chat
Subject: Life membership
"Hart J.D" <J.D.Hart@> wrote:
rights
"Honorary
This raises an important point. It was my understanding that there no
longer existed such a thing as a life member. It came up a few years ago
(among other things)

Richard

Your memory would be a bit pants then. Possible leaning into wishfull
thinking.

There are two reasons for not having life membership of the society
(as opposed to the union).

(i) The union have banned it and refused to recognize the concept.
(ii) The society wants and needs the money from members each year
to add to the social fund.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is attempting to weasel out from paying
their membership fees.

Later,

---

Adam Hattrell, Support, Cimio Ltd. adam@

to add to the social fund.
I was never a life member of IFIS. therefore claiming that I thought life membership was still around indicated memory loss due to old age rather than any attempt to weasel out of anything.


...............................................................................
clyth@
In relativity, matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter
how to move. The Heart of Gold told space to get knotted...
D. Adams Life, The Universe and Everything

----------

membership was still around indicated memory loss due to old age rather
than any attempt to weasel out of anything.

Careful wording there. You *were* a life member of Gamesoc and it's very
likely that a similar life membership policy is in place for both
societies.


Richard

Your point being?
...............................................................................
clyth@
In relativity, matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter
how to move. The Heart of Gold told space to get knotted...
D. Adams Life, The Universe and Everything

----------
From: Richard Mines
Sent: 09 March 1998 18:59
To: chat
Subject: Re: Life membership
membership was still around indicated memory loss due to old age rather
than any attempt to weasel out of anything.

Careful wording there. You *were* a life member of Gamesoc and it's very
likely that a similar life membership policy is in place for both
societies.


Richard

to add to the social fund.
It wasn't true in my day, life memberhip was used as a thank
you. Also we never used to spend all the IFIS money, we certainly
didn't think that giving life membership would take money from the
society - infact the reverse, it was more likely to save money as
x-students are the sort who do photocopying etc. for nothing.

I agree that it is completely two-face of the SU to have life membership
for itself but refuse it for societies.

Daniel

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proviso
I would have to agree here. I certainly don't remeber life membership being
reinstated. It's a bit of a double standard to be honest - the more life
memberships you give away, the less likely it is that the society will have
enough real members to survive. I think the reason they existed originally
was to give to people who were leaving the area after they graduated and
hence wouldn't have any ties with the societies anyway. I don't think they
were intended as a way for people to stay active members for free.


Richard

On Monday, March 09, 1998 6:57 PM, Richard Mines
[SMTP:richard@] wrote:
is
active
To clarify (and I hope some of the other
'old-timers' might back me up here), life
membership was an 'honour' bestowed upon a member
of IFIS because they had done a lot of work for
the society over many years. Considering the
number of people that seem to come out of the
woodwork occasionally and claim they were life
members, either this accolade has been somewhat
devalued (and given away much more frequently) or
people are lying.

There is no way that the number of people with
life membership, when I was around, could
possibly have affected membership fees. These
days, if half the people who claimed to have been
life members were, I can see IFIS would have a
problem.

Gamesoc, at least up to about 2 years after I
graduated in 1991, never had life membership! It
didn't exist as a concept in that society.

The IFIS life members that I knew would never
have abused their position anyway and the vast
majority of them don't live anywhere near Egham
any more.

As I recall (I'm sure 1001 people will cut me to
shreds if I'm wrong - "no, use the blunt knife"),
the Student Union got wind of IFIS life
membership by reading the constitution (sounds
unlikely, doesn't it) and told the committee to
get rid of it. So they did. [cynic mode] I very
much doubt, knowing for many years how the Union
operates, that they will reinstate it. I'd love
to be proved wrong.

---

Matthew Houghton

I agree with Matthew...
As far am I am aware, life membership was very common once...
But it faded and Sharon and I put it back in the constutition (along with
the Lemin and Opus etc.) During my time it was only given out a few times -
all in AGMs with a proper vote on the issue.
The constutition I helped write wasratified at an AGM.
Now if the SU wanted to change it, I always believed they would also
require it to be voted on in an AGM - could the current IFIS chair
enligthen me on this?..
The history as far as I am aware is
The original constutition was lost (written by certain now heads of department
I believe), then rewritten years later by Jemermy; ammendments were added
in a pub meeting - after we realized we had enought people present.
it was then rewritten by Sharon and I; then changed by the current lot.
So it was never been fixed or veted by the SU in the past...

Daniel

=====================================================================

Nortel Ltd, E-Mail : celano@
140 greenway,
Harlow Business Park, TEL : (01279) 405316
Harlow,
Essex.
CM19 5QD FAX : (01279) 405070

=====================================================================

During my third year (so must be about 3 years ago now), the SU "lost"
our constitution. They insisted on recieving a new one. We provided
one over the Summer vacation, which they then lost again. The schmuck
in charge of Clubs and Socs threatened to freeze our accounts (we guess
he'd noticed the 600 pounds in our account) unless we provided him
with the relevant documentation. We provided them with yet another
copy. He then complained about the various ammendments regarding
cuddly toys, overhead projectors, life membership, the fact that
we didn't meet on SU premises, that the library was uninsured, that
he didn't have a copy of our planned list of activities for the year
(try turning over that page there Shamz), and various other issues
that I can't remember (probably because they were too petty).

So we dealt with the issues we felt were vaguely relevant. We rewrote
the constitution, removed lifemembership, cuddly toys, the rule about
the secretary having to turn up in a short skirt, stockings, heels and a
blouse (but only if they were men), and ended up with a streamlined
formalised constitution. Which was duly voted on and rather amazingly
was passed with an overwhelming majority.

Personally I'd have been happy to have just had two constitutions, one
for the SU and one for us, but Colin was fairly adamant that we should
"sort this out properly". I suppose I can see his point. Half our
membership that year were claiming to be life members.

We also moved the library into the SU, said that we wanted to buy a
cupboard with our social fund - and was told that the SU would pay for it.
(Still an eye on our money I assume). We gave half of hour money to gamesoc
(as the union had cocked up 2 years before hand and put their social in our
account), and spent a few hundred on books. I then spent the rest of the
year hassling the union for the cupboard, every week on Friday afternoons,
I went and found the git and asked him whether there had been any progress.
Got to the point where if he saw me, he'd run away. So I'd jump him
when he was talking to someone else. We eventually got the cupboard (sans
shelving) on the day I finished my third year exams. Which incidently is
why I jump all over anyone suggesting moving the library back out again,
you wouldn't believe the work that went into to getting the bloody thing
in the first place. I'm in complete awe of Luke managing to get the shelves
so damn quickly.
Well I'm not the current IFIS chair, but I was the Treasurer of the
time. We "voluntarily" changed the constitution, due to the hidden
threat that we'd be folded if we didn't. To be fair to the SU,
however, there were a number of members who thought that the various
cuddly toys etc, where rather on the sad side and they were quite
happy to dispose of them. Life membership, went out with the rest of the
baggage.
Rather amusingly a copy of one of the earlier constitutions of gamesoc
turned up recently and was waved in front of Neil or Jon's face.
Which inspired them to write theirs up yet again. So you can probably
expect to see one of IFIS's showing up in the near future, and the
whole malarchy again....

Later,

---

Adam Hattrell, Support, Cimio Ltd. adam@

Earlier I wrote:
Well at the start of the year anyway. We started the year with
about 24 people, about half of which were "life members" (most of whom
still payed, some under protest), and about half a dozen others.
We ended with 180 members. Not bad a year really.

Later,

---

Adam Hattrell, Support, Cimio Ltd. adam@

Previously, Richard Mines wrote....
You've remembered correctly, but I think you'll find that the life
membership in question was of RHULSU not IFIS? The SU (in a nice two-faced
manner) allows x-students to become lifemembers, otherwise x-students like
ourselves wouldn't be allowed to join IFIS.

Chris

---

chris@ #include <stddisclaimer.h> http://www.instituteofcorrection.org.uk/

"So this is really me? A no-style gimbo with teeth druids could use as a
place of worship" - Duaine Dibley (Red Dwarf - "Back to Reality")